Barebottom, shallow Sandbed, DSB

[Reefugee]

I am not trying to start a debate of barebottom vs shallow sandbed vs deep sandbed. I am curious what type of sandbed people have in their tank. I especially want to hear from the "experts" in our group such as Rich (thereefgeek), Tim (TFP), Karl (reefnutz), Marc Daniels, Robert (RasRobre), and so on. I am seriously considering going with bare bottom tank.

 

[pepe.king.prawn]

it's a looks thing. I like a shallow sand bed.

 

[Marc Daniels]

In my 10+ years in the hobby, I have always had a sand bed. I just like the look and feel that it is more realistic. In my opinion, I think if you spend a lot of money to have a nice show tank in your home, and you go BB that you might as well have a tank with LR and frag racks. It just looks very unnatural to me. I like the total balanced look, sand, critters, rock, coral, algae, etc.

Everyone has to determine what they want, and stick with it. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby. My current tank is 300g, with a 3"-6" sand bed depending upon how the sand settled. I slowly stocked to tank with coral & fish, and I think it is lightly stocked with coral in regards to the tank volume. I have a lot of life in the sand and do not have any detritus that I can see under/behind the rock. You are very welcome to come by and look at what I have done.

 

[Kinetic]

I have a less than 1/2" sandbed in my 5gallon pico tank, and a 1" sand bed in my 32 gallon tank, and plan on a 1" sand bed in my 98 gallon tank.

I like the look of sand, and I've seen people's tanks with sand that are crystal clear like that you see in barebottom tanks. The reason being is they have crazy skimmers and good filtration. It's easier to have a clearer system without a sand bed, but with a properly planned sand bed, I think it can be done.

My 32g's sand is fine grained, but not the oolite stuff. It kicked around for about a month, but it's settled since then. There are huge hills and parts of the bottom showing, but after the flow has kicked up all the sand it can reach, it stops moving the sand anymore. So I think as long as you can deal with sandstorms for the initial part of the setup of a tank, you should be fine with sand.

I love the look, and with a shallow enough bed, it doesn't become a detritus trap.

almost 8 months with the 32g and I haven't had a problem with the sand.

 

[RasBobre]

A sand bed is much more than aesthetics people. Natural Nitrate Reduction (NNR) is the greatest benefit of a deep sand bed. plus Ph buffering and calcification. A sand bed is necessary for many animals that go into our tanks, gobies, wrasses, jawfish, sea cucumbers and sea stars.

A year and a half ago I set up a 180 gallon aquarium with a 36" cube refugium and a six inch sand bed in the refugium. In the aquarium I used a one and a half to two inch sand bed. I started the refugium with a ball of Chaeto the size of a softball. Today the refugium is packed almost too tight with the algae, the sand bed is full of life and the aquarium has not had a trace of nitrates since the first month.

The system works. I get the aesthetics of a shallow bed viewing the aquarium and the benefits of the DSB in the refugium.

Personally, I think a sand bed is absolutely necessary. Coral prop tanks excluded.

 

[thereefgeek]

I don't know about "expert", but yes, I keep sand in my tank. For nearly 8 of the past ten years I've kept a "plenum" tank, and now only sand in my new set up. 2" or so, mainly because I like the look of a sandbed, but more importantly for the biological factors. There's a lot that goes on down there and for everything that poops, there's something else in there that eats it.

My 20 long Q-tank is a bare bottom, but that's strictly for utility purposes.

 

[brentp]

Minh,

I agree with everyone that a sandbed (if kept clean) looks better than a BB tank. Anyone who says that sand is necessary for a healthy tank is absolutely wrong. When I first started keeping tanks I always kept bare bottom tanks (and they always had detectable nitrate).

I had a tank with a DSB for a few years and after cycling it never had detectable nitrate. For quite a few years I would have agreed that sand was necessary if you wanted undetectable nitrates.

When I decided to start up an all SPS tank 2 years ago I decided to go back to BB. I had developed a valonia problem in the DSB tank and moved that problem to the BB tank. After about 8 months I moved all of the live rock to another tank (with no fish) for about six months to try and get rid of the valonia. My BB tank ran for six months with no live rock and no sand with everything living on eggcrate and there were never any measurable nitrates. This wasn't true 10 years ago, but nitrates are easily controlled with a good skimmer now.

IME, a BB tank is easier to maintain. If you want sand because you want to keep animals that need it or because you just like the look of sand then go with sand. Obviously, there are a lot of beautiful BB, DSB, and SSB tanks around. You just have to pick the method that is best for you and your animals.

Brent

 

[LanDoctor]

Ecosystem Health

Ecosystem Health

Although not an expert, I have been at this game for a while. My current tank isn't very old, yet it looks like an established tank to most.
My personal goal when setting up a tank is to gather as much biodiversity as possible. I don't try to create a sterile monoculture environment, as many of the bare bottom group are advocating.
I would venture to guess that I have 10 times more life in my sand bed and live rock, than I do in the rest of the whole tank. The corals and fish are a very small part of the "micro ecosystem" in my tank.
I believe when you try to take a very small slice of the ecosystem, and exclude all of the rest, you set yourself up for failure.
It's possible that you can temporarily get more growth and maybe even some more color by growing them out in a sterile environment, but it will not last the test of time.

Just like Barry from Clams Direct said, you can use fertilizer to grow clams at a very fast rate, but their shells are brittle and thin, and they will end up dying sooner than "normally" grown clams. Their bodies are not developed enough to support that much shell growth, and their immune system is still very weak.

I agree with Marc and Rasbore, sand is essential to the long term health of the system. Plus it adds another whole dimension to viewing your tank. Not only does it look more natural, but watching all of the creatures come out at night is absolutely amazing.


Just my .02
Donovan

P.S. I have had both, and still use a bare bottom quarantine tank but as I said, long term health is the difference.

 

[Unarce]

I'm no more an expert than you are, Minh, and am merely waxing poetic with everyone else:lol:

There's really no right or wrong, better or worse. Either method can bring success or unexplained failure.

I only have experience with 'shallow sand bed' and 'barebottom'. I haven't tried 'deep sand bed' because I prefer to give my fish as much swimming space as possible. I also didn't like the unsightly growth against the glass that accompany DSB's.

I've done BB twice, but only after two tank moves where I didn't want to bring the prior SSB with me. To really garner the full benefit of a BB tank, the floor needs to be vacuumed frequently. Megaflow is required (40X plus turnover rate) to keep the detritus suspended. Still, deadspots are unavoidable with large pieces of live rock, and frequent vacuuming is needed.

The method I favor most is SSB. There's basically, no difference between the nitrification and denitrification between an SSB and DSB. The aerobic bacteria that perform nitrification, occurs near the surface. 70-90% of the denitrifying anaerobic bacteria, do their thing within the first cm of the sand bed. The rest, occurs within the next 3 cm. A 2" sandbed is more than enough.

To be honest, I didn't care much for the look of a BB, as I like how a sand bed reflects light back up. This is remedied with starboard, but its eventually covered in coralline.

The main knock against sand beds is that it traps all the nasties and blows everywhere in megaflow tanks. The occasional vacuuming of the sand bed fixes that, if it's a major concern of yours. Also, utilizing different grain-sizes can help keep the sand in place. This will also create multiple environment conditions for greater diversity of fauna.

Just determine which one will suit the needs of your inhabitants, and your ability to maintain it. Some feel a BB is absolutely necessary for ultimate growth and coloration of SPS. A DSB can necessary for certain types of fish (i.e. jawfish, wrasse). I've found peace in between

HTH, Minh!

Karl

 

[Kinetic]

for those with BB or SSB with no natural nitrate reduction of a DSB, there's the simple remote deep sand bed which will do exactly the same thing, but without the detritus goop buildup =)

 

[seaworks]

2 inch sandbed.

 

[Brian Prestwood]

I have a shallow (1-2") sand bed in my display and a remote DSBs (6") in my tank stand.

Having seen my 120 go downhill because I couldn't get at the DSB to maintain it I opted for remote DSBs in my new 200. Replacing the sand now consists of siphoning the sand out of one of the cells in the remote DSB and filling it with new sand.

As for the display, the shallow sand bed looks good and encourages microfauna.

 

[shilo_1]

I don't like the look of BB either. I've currently got about 2 to 3" in my display. When I upgrade soon, I plan on the same for the display, and a little deeper in the sump.

 

[tfp]

minh,
no way i'd consider myself an expert...i'm more like sand dollars reef apprentice that guy really knows his stuff!

anyways...i've done a 6+" DSB, complete BB and now a 1-2" SSB. each has their merits like karl said. and i think that each can be successfully run long-term with good results as long as stay on top of your system.

i'm using a heavier grain of sand to minimize shifting/blowing and couldn't be happier. one observation regarding fish though...my sixline wrasses never spawned when the tank was BB. so i think sand makes a world of difference to certain fish

 

[Reefugee]

Well, it sounds like most of the experts are running shallow sandbed. I am going to go ahead and run shallow sandbed. Just need to remove the rest of the sand in my tank and put in new sand. I am going to try to create a deep sandbed inside my refugium. Thanks again!

Minh

 

[MandM]

Minh, make sure to take and post pics as you set up.

 

[Wee-Reef Master]

Hey Minh,

Holler at me when you begin the change. I'd be happy to help!

 

[fishfarmer]

I am definately not an expert, but I initially had a shallow sand bed maybe 1" when I first stared my 38 gal reef in 2000. I switched my reef to a 4" bed two years later during a 55 gal upgrade. I pulled that bed after having lots of algae issues and during last years move I went to a mostly bare bottom tank. I'm upgrading again soon and am planning on going back to a shallow bed of 1"-2" mixed substrate. I never had algae problems with my first setup and now it seems to be something I always battle.

I also have a 3"-6" DSB in a 120 FOWLR tank that has been running for about four years. That tank has been a joy to work with. I do less water changes on that tank than my reef.

Most of the local tanks that I have seen with great coral growth have had some type of shallow substrate.

 

[Reefugee]

I changed out my tank this weekend. Here are some pictures. Unfortunately, I did not take any pictures prior to removing the sand. Sorry about all the glare and reflection on the tank. I should have closed the blinds while taking the pictures.

Here is a picture with the sand gone. Some of the sand was left underneath the base rock. I had hoped it wouldn't cause the rock structure to shift - but unfortunately it did. Luckly no rock fell down. (Talking about being lucky).

This is with the new sand in. Noticed the sand storm. There are rocks in there, but you can see it because of sandstorm. Although the pictures looks like you are seeing through the tank - you can't see more than 5" into the tank. What you are seeing is the reflection of my window.

The surface was full of foam as well. The skimmer was going nuts.

Here's a picture of the tank 24 hours later:

 

[Pico1]

Looks awesome! And more importantly, clean