Barebottom tanks

[mamagoose45]

In order to combat the death algae that we have in the 90, we are breaking down and getting new rock and starting over. So as a part of this process we're discussing going with the BB tank idea to avoid the nasty line that inevitably shows up in the sandbed about an inch down.

Now, I know there are a bunch of opinions as far as the pros/cons of both of these setups. If you do run BB, give us some feedback - did you put anything on the bottom (ie. starboard, egg crate, etc), how do you have your rock supported so as not to slide around, general advice as far as setup/maintenance, good places for info (ie. threads, websites) - things of this sort.

I honestly don't know if I've ever actually seen a full blown tank that's set up as BB. If you do and have some pictures, please throw them in the thread if you could.... TIA

 

[ocd_mariner]

This helps your thread not one bit. But I'll never have sand in my tank again.

I think I would, however, use the remote dsb.

 

[SRT80]

I believe fishdoc doesnt have a sandbed. At least before he moved, I think he took all the sand out of his 90. I could be wrong...

Steve

 

[mamagoose45]

Indeed - we actually bought his 90 from him, and he had it BB when we went to check it out. But at that point in the hobby, I could have cared less about anything, so I certainly didn't take notice to it or care if there was sand. I simply went along to make sure Brian didn't spend too much money If only we still had that voice of reason...

Off the top of my head, Chris is the only one that I know has/does run BB. I didn't know if there were others out there as well...

 

[fishdoc11]

There are lots of people that run BB these days. It was quite the craze a couple of years back with some going back to sand after trying it but I have been BB in my tank for several years now.
A couple of things IMO that are important in BB tanks.
A good quality skimmer and good flow. The skimmer helps remove waste before ot breaks down and flow helps keep detritus suspended so it can be removed by the skimmer. You will never keep it all suspended and detritus will settle in pockets here and there. It's good to tweak your flow a bit with powerheads/returns blowing behind the rockwork etc.....to keep the detritus in easy to reach places where it can be siphoned out periodically. If you are lazy like me you can just stir it all up (including blowing off your rocks which is a good idea no matter what type of substrate you have) with a good powerhead every couple of weeks with filter socks on you line/s to your sump to catch the detritus. Of course you can add things like a fuge, RDSB, P remover etc....to tweak the system to your particular tastes.
I put starboard on the bottom of mine because I'm prone to drop tools that "rocket" to the bottom and scare me but plenty of folks just use the bottom glass to build their structures on with no problems.
Here are some pics:
Your (my old) tank

My new tank last summer

Dave's (cee) tank:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1283828&perpage=25&pagenumber=3
Old pics of Michael's (64Ivy) tank. This tank went 10 years BB until it crashed due to some equipment changes. I got a lot better looking than it is here:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/totm/index.php
Leonardo's tank:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1216333
Lots of good one's in this thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=810453&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

hth, Chris

 

[DMBillies]

Chris-
Thanks for the pics and info. I'll take a bit more time to look over those in the next couple of days. I think it would be a good idea for me to go with something underneath of the rocks for sure. I also tend to drop things (although usually my pliers take out a piece of a colony to slow their fall to the bottom) and am kind of afraid of the rock sliding much easier on glass without anything helping to hold it. The starboard seems the most logical. Any thoughts/pointers on installing it? What color did you use? Seems like black would blend in the most until it got some stuff covering it. I'd be afraid that the white would look like it's glowing. I also remember seeing your 90 when it was BB and you had the rocks put really close to the front. Was that just so there wasn't a ton of empty glass in front of the rocks? A giant expanse of flat space is the one thing I'm worried about as far as the look of a BB.

 

[fishdoc11]

Brian,
If you can get the Starboard (basically HDPE) in in one piece that's the way to go. I had to cut mine to get it in my 120 and the gap in the middle still bothers me a bit.....but I'm a stickler
You can cut it with regular woodworking tools.
Belive it or not rock doesn't seem to slide at all on bare glass once you have the structure up.
I used white and I like it.....others have used black and like it as well. I like the extra reflective properties of white but after a while it all gets covered in coraline so it's a moot point anyway.
The 90 just doesn't have much room front to back. The aquascape was the same when I had sand and when I took it out.
Chris

 

[Mikeyjer]

Chris,

When you had it barebottom, what do you use in the sump/fuge area??? I've been thinking about doing that on my next tank, but would like to know how you do the sump/fuge area. Types of materials, sand?, chaeto?, equipments?, etc. Thanks!

 

[fishdoc11]

Lots of people that are barebottom can't keep chaeto because the nutrients are so low anyway but that's because they use phophate removers as well in some cases. In my case I have lots of fish and don't use phosphate removers so I can grow cheato, but it grows a little slow. I just have a small part of the sump that the water flows through with the cheato in it lit by a 75 watt grow bulb. I don't keep any sand in my "fuge" so I can vacume the bottom easily. I had a fuge in my 90 the whole time but have only recently added one to my 120.
Here is a great thread on fuge's:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=462212
I have enough flow in my new sump so that the ball keeps tumbling which is pretty cool

Chris

 

[DMBillies]

I've read about flow through and the tumbling cheato ball before. It seems like something I would love to do. My problem is that most overflows can't handle that much more flow in order to increase the turnover rate (this is something I would need to do with a new set-up and it would have to be custom). I've also thought about installing a powerhead or something in the cheato compartment, but the input of the pump would have to be on the other side of a divider to keep algae out of the input. What method did you use in your sump to get the cheato ball spinning? Just a higher through rate?

 

[fishdoc11]

Yeah I probably have around 950 gph going through the sump now. Other people I know have had success just using a strategically located powerhead. With your setup I tried to get it rolling with the normal flow a couple of times with no success and gave up.

 

[mamagoose45]

Where do you get the starboard??

 

[gsusfreak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11677277#post11677277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mamagoose45
Where do you get the starboard??

i'd like to know as well

 

[fishdoc11]

I think I ordered mine from http://www.cuttingboardcompany.com/ It's basically HPPE and you can find it at marine supply stores and cutting board places. You will want to use 1/2" not 1/4".
You might be able to do a search and find it cheaper than th place I linked. I think I pai around $100 for a 4' by 2' sheet.
Chris

 

[mamagoose45]

Chris, why do you say use 1/2" instead of 1/4"? I just did a quick scan online and it seems that 1/2" is usually double what 1/4" is. Just asking if there is an obvious reason that I don't see....

 

[fishdoc11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11685117#post11685117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mamagoose45
Chris, why do you say use 1/2" instead of 1/4"? I just did a quick scan online and it seems that 1/2" is usually double what 1/4" is. Just asking if there is an obvious reason that I don't see....

Because 1/4" will warp and 1/2" won't.

 

[mamagoose45]

So, in looking for places that sell the HDPE sheets, I came up with the idea of using HDPE rods for a "skeleton" for stacking rock work when we redo the tank. As I'm investigating the price of these rods, it seems that most places carry UHMW rods instead of the HDPE. According to the one sales person I talked to, the only difference is that UHMW is a stronger, denser plastic. Does anyone know anything about this type of plastic, if it's reef safe, etc?? TIA

 

[H@rry]

What about just using regular cutting boards from Big Lots or Bed, Bath, & Beyond, etc. laid end to end. You could cut them with a table saw. We have a place here in Huntsville called Mike's Warehouse (also one in Guntersville i understand) that buys and resells "destressed or overruns merchandise". One time I saw a whole table full of cutting boards that had a little dark streak through them. Kinda like the plastic might have gotten a little too hot in the manufacturing process. They couldn't sell them for kitchen cutting boards but they probably would do just fine for a BB tank bottom. In a few months they would be corraline colored anyway.

 

[mamagoose45]

The HDPE for the bottom isn't a problem to get a hold of. I found a local place here in Nashville that sells it. It'll probably come out to the same price (if not less) as what buying enough cutting boards would cost, and they'll cut it to my exact dimensions for me for no extra charge...

 

[waynesworld]

so who has it in Nashville I may want to use it on the 240 when I redo it.