basement sumps?

[MSU Fan]

We are going to be plumbing a basement sump for our tank. Right now, our 20g sump is ok, but I want to take advantage of the ability to run a line through our cold air return duct and plumb that into a sump down stairs. We have an empty 55g, which I would use as a fuge (or later a frag tank), and we are going to get a 100g stock tank.

I would like the plumbing to run into the 55g, then out a drilled bulkhead into a drain into the stock tank. The water will then be skimmed and proceed out a drill bulkhead (BryanJ, we have to get up there and see your set up one of these days) into a Mak4 return pump. The pump will need to push water up ~14' and horizontally 31'. I wanted to use 1.5" flexible hose to run the water since that matches the bulkhead connections of the AGA overflow plumbing.

I would also add a t right after the return pump to be able to limit output so the pump doesn't overrun my overflowing capability.

One of my goals will be to limit the amount of water movement once the pump has been shut down. I am thinking a check valve just above the t next to the pump and one just below the return pipe of the tank.

I am not sure how to set up the 55g to accept the water from the tank and corral that water into the fuge with a minimum of bubbles/turbulence, and then have that water leave the fuge, without draining it (maybe 3 separate sections joined via baffle overflowing?).

Also, should I have one or two drilled holes for the 55g to drain into the stock tank which will be directly below?

I probably have a lot more questions, but I can't think of more right now. Pics of your set up would be helpful too!

 

[jandlms]

Your pushing water a long way. Is your pump powerful enough?? I'm not familiar with that model. Also don't forget a series of baffles to trap debris and eliminate microbubbles.

 

[MSU Fan]

according to the head loss calc, I would still have 600+ gph.

 

[jandlms]

I believe you also "lose" a little more head with the addition of any check valves and a little more with any 90 degree turns. Maybe add a little more loss to the equation for those things. Are you splitting the returns to the tank because that will divide the flow you are getting althoough not necessarily reducing any of the gph. I guess what I'm saying as the owner of a sump plumbed to the basement is that they are great but you definitely have to pay more attention to the flow returning "upstairs" because it does diminish a great deal more than the calculations and the manufacturers often suggest. I know my next pump is going to be quite a bit larger than my current one even though the current one "calculated" out in to the acceptable range.

 

[MSU Fan]

Understood - the head loss calculator does take into account any 90's, 45's, etc, etc, and does (supposedly) adjust the overall gph rate because of those items.

And yes, I don't want to lose any gph out of the pump, but i do want to limit the overall gph hitting the tank. right now, my mag7 is only pushing a little over 400gph into the tank. I would be fine with that.

I don't plan to have any direct 90 degree elbows as I will use flexible hose to mitigate that effect. With 1 tee, 2 check valves, 31' horizontal, 1 ball valve, no 90s, no 45s, no gates, 2 unions, with 1 entrance and 2 exits, I can hit 435gph at 18' of head. If that is real, then that would be fine. Since I know that the vertical pipe height is only 14', I think that I should be fine.

As for the baffles - are you referring to the 55g or in the stock tank? would I set up the 55g like a "normal" sump - meaning an intake area, with bubble trap, then a fuge, then a single baffle, with the "return" area being the area that drains into the sump?

 

[bigreef74]

i have a 100 gallon rubber maid stock tank for $ 60.00 if u are interested.

 

[BryanJ]

There are picks of my stock tank in my gallery if you want to take a look.

Jon there are also pics of the reactors that I built.

 

[MSU Fan]

Bryan, what is that table top your tank is sitting on made of?

 

[kiowascout]

a MAk4 wil work fine for you. Thats what I ran in my basement sump and I was pushing almost exactly the same distances as you.

dont forget to put in a ball valve immediately on each side of the pump so you can remove it for maintenance and control outflow as you desire.

 

[MSU Fan]

Thanks Kiowascout - do you mean a union on each side so i can remove it? I am think to make it:

stock tank - union - pump - union - t - ball valve - stock tank

I

tube to tank

 

[customcolor]

i think you would want it to be like this
stock tank - BALL VALVE - union - pump - union - ball valve - T- stock tank
plus im folowing cuz im starting to set mine up and i need more ideas to run through my head

 

[MSU Fan]

yeah, maybe a way to stop the water from draining from the stock tank when I disconnect the pump would be smart, huh? That's why i posted!

Thanks so far...as for the 55g, what kind of drilled set up should I do? 2 1" holes?

 

[siropa]

be careful about depending on the check valves to work when you really need them. over time they will get encrusted with various gunk and murphy's law says they will fail just when you do need them. to be safe i'd make sure your sump has enough volume to contain all the water for when it back flows.

also, i'd be concerned about the noise. that water is going to be flowing a long ways and might build up some nice movement. would suck to get all the noise coming back up the pump. something to look into if thats a concern for where the tank is going to be.

 

[jmkarcz]

YOU, (or me for that matter) CANNOT DRILL a 55.


You will be picking up the pcs.

Don't even try.

Sorry.
JK

unless it's acrylic.

 

[customcolor]

try this super sucking siphon this is what im going to do with my 20 fuge just so i dont have to drill thin glass, plus u can make it as big as u want so you dont have to worry about amound of flow it can handle. but if your still wanting to drill FIND OUT IF ITS TEMPERD!!! i was scared so i didnt drill my 55 for a sump and just bought a rubbermaid for the sump instead

 

[siropa]

I think I saw a thread on here some place about that siphon and about some ways to improve it. such as making it smaller and some other stuff.

 

[customcolor]

i saw the same thead and i think they ment smaller by not making it so deep into the tank.

 

[kiowascout]

exactly what customcolor said for the plumbing into and out of the pump.

youll want valves and unions on each side of the pump for ease of disconnect. Nothing sucks more than having to pull tour pump offline and then realizing that you are going to lose all the water in your sump because the pump level is below it and you dont have a way to shut off the water.

 

[MSU Fan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10518799#post10518799 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmkarcz
YOU, (or me for that matter) CANNOT DRILL a 55.


You will be picking up the pcs.

Don't even try.

Sorry.
JK

unless it's acrylic.

The sides are tempered too? If so, well, that sux big time...:mad2:

 

[customcolor]

to what i have seen most tanks that have cracked or shaterd where 55's. to what i have heard 2002 and older 55's where all 5 sides where tempered unless ordered diff.