BEST ORP for Sulphur NO3 Reactor (De-Nitrator)

1jwampler

New member
Hello everyone. I have had a GEO NR818 (CR818 conversion) running using the nose and salifert method of control, while this produced 0 nitrate from the reactor and a significant reduction in tank nitrates, the levels are still too high for SPS (5-10ppm).

Messaged GEO, asked for a probe insert top and converted the NR818 from 1/2 sulphur 1/2 aragonite to 95% Sulphur, 5% ceramic media mix to retain bacteria population during refueling.

I put in the lab grade ORP probe on Neptune, made my cross-over BNC adapter to show negative numbers, and put a normally open solenoid on the feed line to shut off the feed to the reactor when the ORP drops below X. I plan to adjust the needle valve on the NR818 to a flow just slightly higher than needed to maintain X. My target would be solenoid closing 4 to 24 times per day, with 12 times being perfect, so if the bacteria get too excited the flow will offset any tendency to go caustic to my tank.

I have read as much as I can out there, but, probably need to opinion of a Chemist like Randy to determine X for best amount of flow while not risking bacteria going aerobic and providing no benefit (i.e. water out of the reactor with measurable NO3).

I have read -1 to -50 as a minimum, others say -150, -170 or even -200, and even others saying anything higher than -300. I realize in the reef tank ORP is not a specific number, but, a constant and I follow that rule, to keep a number in the tank and it has worked well for me. In fact, I have never even calibrated an ORP probe, since it's just a target and only the change, not the actual number matters.

With the NO3 reactor, there is much more risk of getting it wrong and with only the smell test to know if it's too slow, I don't feel comfortable picking an article I like best between -1 and -300 and hoping the author had some science behind it.

I currently have the needle valve set to ~-140 with the solenoid set to -120 (closing or shutting off water from -120 and higher - higher being a smaller negative number). Feel free to look at my reeftronics.net page (1jwampler) and see N-ORP. I plan to move the needle valve closer to -100 without better guidance from this forum, so the solenoid can actually do some control. but, if the -150 or less club is right, my target is too low, if the -50 club is right I'm not getting the most flow I can from the reactor, which risks both causticity (not measurable by the nose).

Any links to science behind measuring and sustaining ORP (with flow) in an NO3 sulphur de-nitrator would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
 
There are a number of opinions on how to run a sulfur reactor. This thread has some discussion:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2424244
Thanks for the link, but, it's like all of the others I have read, Randy's interjections are great and ask good questions, but, not the answer I'm looking for. I know 2014 was only 2 years ago, but, Sulphur based NO3 reactors are still maturing, most are just modified calcium reactors, like my GEO. I had to send them pix of the sulphur (they sold me), running through the screens they supplied and they sent sponges, so not quite a science yet.

I'm fairly confident that an ORP number in the reactor will fairly closely represent the situation where it's more efficient for the bacteria to strip the O from the NO3 as an average. I realize that throughout the reactor, this assembly/disassembly will take place differently, but, I have to think that at ORP of -X, "conditions" are known "BEST" as a compromise flow(rate) to potential NO3 in the effluent.

Again this link has a poster saying -220 and another saying -150 and the Belgian saying -1 to -300, again while I'm sure he's well educated, quoting how much NO3 could be removed by 1.4mm granule of sulphur, to me doesn't have much science behind his statements. Since a granule could be more or less porous, exposed to the side of the reactor (no flow, etc), it's very difficult to take what he puts out as facts to really be based on science.

So.... My plan in absence of anyone else posting some actual ORP cases, is going to be to use the solenoid to hold flow at X, increasing by 5 each day, -150, -145, etc and measure the effluent for NO3 at the end of 24 hours at each step until I see NO3, then lower by -50 and hold there. It's a bit difficult to precisely hold X, so it will just be an average. My last test was at -140 at 0ppm in the effluent, my guess is that around -30 to -50 I will see (Salifert test) some NO3 in the effluent.
 
I don't think there's going to be any one "best" value. There's a balance between the ORP level in the reactor and the denitrification rate. I think your plan is fine.
 
I'm interested in what you find in terms of specific optimal ORP ranges.

For me adjusting flow and sulfur volume on my diy reactor in response to variable NO3 levels(lower flow when NO3 is high; higher flow when NO3 is low) gets the results I'm after.The bacteria are facultative as far as I know.


I understand the effort to encourage anaerobic citivity vs aerobic activity via ORP control but haven't seen enough specifics on a working model( other than CHSUb's reports) to form an opinion on a practical application.
 
i will define "best" ORP as the number that produces no3 free effluent at the highest flow. ime, ~ -150 seems about right, however your number may differ. Currently my reactor is running at max flow that the pump and tube size will allow -385.

this pic is dt no3 and effluent no3.

[URL=http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/CHSUB/media/image_zpshh8hgetw.jpeg.html][/URL]

Is -150 as low as you were able to get with 0 NO3 in the effluent? I did a test tonight at -132 still 0 NO3 with Salifert, but, showing between 5 and 10 in the influent. Current flow is ~11oz/min from a GEO NR818 with about 22lbs of Sulphur. This said, the solenoid is set to go "ON" meaning closed/no flow thru the reactor at -130, sometimes makes it to -128 but by the time it opens, ORP is about -134. Holds for about 30-60 minutes before increasing above -130 (increasing to -130 from -134, sure sounds funny), so needle valve is set perfect for my design.
 
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The ORP at which the nitrate reaches zero could vary from tank to tank. The flow through the reactors brings in oxygen and some amount of organics, which will be consumed by bacteria and reduce the oxygen and ORP levels. The nitrate level, surface area, and dwell time (determined by the flow) will influence how much nitrate is reduced to nitrogen gas. You have one control for the reactor, but the input profile will vary from tank to tank.
 
Is -150 as low as you were able to get with 0 NO3 in the effluent? I did a test tonight at -132 still 0 NO3 with Salifert, but, showing between 5 and 10 in the influent. Current flow is ~11oz/min from a GEO NR818 with about 22lbs of Sulphur. This said, the solenoid is set to go "ON" meaning closed/no flow thru the reactor at -130, sometimes makes it to -128 but by the time it opens, ORP is about -134. Holds for about 30-60 minutes before increasing above -130 (increasing to -130 from -134, sure sounds funny), so needle valve is set perfect for my design.

your numbers, iirc, are very close to mine during early use. ~-130 and higher(more positive ie. -127, etc) i would get slight pink from Salifert. i think you are going in the right direction. As others have noted, the actual ORP value is not to important; only that you find a number to slow/stop flow when effluent has readable no3. my filter has been running for almost 4 years with only 1 cleaning and during that time ORP has become more negitive. I have not had a problem with such a large negative number. I clean the probe but maybe it needs calibration, however as long as the effluent is odor and no3 free i'm good!! i'm processing almost 2 gallons per hour now.

of interest is after cleaning some claim a sulfur filter needs restarting, mine recovered after only a few hour, however, during intitial start up the processes took 2-3 months.

here is a pic of mine...

[URL=http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/CHSUB/media/image.jpg1_zpseo8mhqlt.jpg.html][/URL]
 
Thanks for the input guys. Current ORP is -130 Salifert is 0.
Attached pix of the test and NR818 with 22lbs of sulphur. The slight color change at the top is 3lbs of sulphur with argonite premixed from carabsea the other 20lbs is only sulphur with some fluhval ceramic media mixed in. The reactor had 10lbs before I put the probe in. It took about 8hours to cycle down to -170 at 3-4 drops per minute after I added the other 12lbs
2bc60b9890670e506299817155fd5a30.jpg
7d1f0f62bfb463bfc6ee7aff6fc0844b.jpg



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Thanks, CHSUB, for your input. It's always good to get notes from someone who's actually carefully done the work of setting something up.
 
Thanks, CHSUB, for your input. It's always good to get notes from someone who's actually carefully done the work of setting something up.

thanks, very happy with the filter. Alot of great info on RC about sulfur reactors, no way i could have gotten this far without it!!!
 
Thanks, CHSUB, for your input. It's always good to get notes from someone who's actually carefully done the work of setting something up.

Ditto; I'd like to see more from folks actually using ORP control with sulfur dentrators.
 
Ditto; I'd like to see more from folks actually using ORP control with sulfur dentrators.

looks like we have one more!!!:thumbsup:

NO3 still zero with 125 average ORP going to try 120
93a9bfc1eafe6768368636eef4e24872.jpg



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looks good....

what is your flow now, still ~11 oz per minute, continuous ~5 gph? which is very good imo!

also what is the dt no3 now, and how many gallon is the reactor? i see the lbs of sulfur, but i would like to know gallons. Could you tell us more about the DT? size, inhabitants, etc.
 
looks like we have one more!!!:thumbsup:



looks good....

what is your flow now, still ~11 oz per minute, continuous ~5 gph? which is very good imo!

also what is the dt no3 now, and how many gallon is the reactor? i see the lbs of sulfur, but i would like to know gallons. Could you tell us more about the DT? size, inhabitants, etc.



12.5oz/min
DT NO3 ~6 ppm
Reactor volume 8x18 ~4 gallons
150 gallon display LPS and too many big fish.
Biggest are crosshatch pair ~9" and two 6" yellows. I have a tank post in the forum.
I feed too often but, the RX seems to be doing the job


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
12.5oz/min
DT NO3 ~6 ppm
Reactor volume 8x18 ~4 gallons
150 gallon display LPS and too many big fish.
Biggest are crosshatch pair ~9" and two 6" yellows. I have a tank post in the forum.
I feed too often but, the RX seems to be doing the job


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

great!!!!

that's a giant reactor, i have "toyed" with the idea of getting a bigger one. With flow like that and no3 free effluent, imo, you well get great results.
keep us updated....
 
Sorry, noob to Sulphur here. Where do you guys have your probe? Inside the reactor or in your sump where the effluent comes out?
 
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