Best shipping procedures

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11033824#post11033824 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by burris
How about Bruce Carlsson? Is he EXTREMELY MISINFORMED too? http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/39/1/44.pdf

Maybe Eric Borneman is EXTREMELY MISINFORMED?
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/eb/index.php

Maybe, just maybe, it is YOU who is EXTREMELY MISINFORMED. Are you prepared for that possibility?

Yes it works, but you have a much higher chance of your Acroporids(isn't that pretty much what this forum is geared towards) dying out of water than in water. I am not talking about some tiddly wink zoanthids here. Go order a bunch of LE frags and ask them to ship them dry and see what happens. Maybe you can call Eric B. when all your frags die. LMAO, just ship them dry and see what happens.

 

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11033808#post11033808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ben&bobbi
maybe they will chime in and help us!

:rollface:

 

[burris]

Charles Delbeek chiming in: http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/pipermail/coral-list/2005-February/001680.html

 

[Serioussnaps]

Oh man...maybe you should read the articles you post!!!!!!

"I would have to say there are a number of factors involved in its success or failure."---FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION

"The submerged method works best for larger fragments or small colonies of branching corals. It is also less prone to rapid chilling during shipping"----WHAT, HUH? DELBEEK? WHAT?

"When I ship larger fragments I send them in bags with 1/3 water and 2/3 oxygen, some plastics strips included for cushioning and the frags wrapped in plastic."---AGAIN? HUH? OH IN WATER? THATS RIGHT!




So I am the misinformed one?

 

[burris]

You're not misinformed any more.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Not to mention the first article discusses this a LONG TIME ago in a situation not applicable to what this thread was intended to discuss. They use the dry method because shipping hundreds of frags wet is not cost effective. They EXPECT mortality. This isn't the case in what WE were talking about here until you came in playing devil's advocate.

"Commerical collectors may use the dry method, but more often they ship their corals in bags of seawater."-------OH MAN IT KEEPS GETTING BETTER

The amount of info on shipping acroporids etc. makes up about 2% of the entire article and of that two percent half of it states most PREFER TO SHIP WET.

Should I read the Eric B. article which I have already read?


Bottom line is these things live in water and can't live without it. It only makes sense even to the biggest idiot on the planet why you would ship them wet. Why that hypothetical person's understanding is beyond yours I can't explain. Its ok to play devils advocate and present alternative shipping methods that aren't as successful/more risky, but it is another thing to come in here calling me misinformed.

 

[flyyyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11033936#post11033936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by burris
You're not misinformed any more.

Thanks for enlightening us all.

Lets see.....Who ships A LOT who could actually benefit from shipping stuff dry and save some on freight. Instead of quoting so called "experts" that are either misquoted, taken out of context, or simply caught speaking beyond their knowledge (which happens frequently in this hobby unfortunately)........lets ask Live Aquaria and Marine Depot how often they ship dry.

Anybody want to make the call??

 

[phljess]

I totally agree with Serioussnaps. Some frags may be shipped "damp" but I would definitely avoid it with acropora species. What really gets me is there are always people quoting what someone says but do not have any practical first hand knowledge on the subject. These people end up writing their opinions on the forums then people actually use their advice and it usually ends in disaster.

 

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11033671#post11033671 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
No, I AM SURE.

Here is an example:

For a 5 lb. 12x10x10 package:

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:00 AM FedEx First Overnight® 61.28
Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:30 AM FedEx Priority Overnight® 29.30
Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:00 PM FedEx Standard Overnight® 25.99

For a 10lb 12x10x10 packageDOUBLE THE WEIGHT)

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:00 AM FedEx First Overnight® 66.69
Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:30 AM FedEx Priority Overnight® 34.54
Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:00 PM FedEx Standard Overnight® 31.12

Now watch this(SAME WEIGHTS BUT DOUBLE THE SIZE):

For a 5 lb 24X20X20 PACKAGE:

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:00 AM FedEx First Overnight® 110.01
Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:30 AM FedEx Priority Overnight® 81.05
Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:00 PM FedEx Standard Overnight® 70.68


For a 10lb 24x20x20 package:

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:00 AM FedEx First Overnight® 110.01
Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:30 AM FedEx Priority Overnight® 81.05
Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:00 PM FedEx Standard Overnight® 70.68


Lookey lookey, double the weight on larger package and no change. Double the weight on smaller package a slight change. Double the SIZE OF THE PACKAGE on the 5 lb and almost double the shipping.


I REST MY CASE


:smokin:

All I really wanted to do was inform everyone that the size of the package weighs more heavily into the cost of shipping....no pun intended

 

[ben&bobbi]

I have read several times this works for zoas, but that's pretty much it. All orders i have received are in water, and have had very min misfortune.

also think it will be good if we wanted to include other types of corals. I was going to post this in the prop corals for sale section, but the read first things says - not for discussions.

i wanted to hear all ideas, but am mainly looking for people with success!

It is hard to weed out experience from he said she said. Post count doesn't work either, i know several with over 2000 posts and less than a year on here, i am sure they are not just from helping people.

serioussnaps - thanks for all your input!

 

[BraenDead]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11033671#post11033671 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
For a 5 lb. 12x10x10 package:

Now watch this(SAME WEIGHTS BUT DOUBLE THE SIZE):

For a 5 lb 24X20X20 PACKAGE:

I hate to say this, but 12x10x10 = 1200 square inches and 24x20x20 = 9600 square inches, 8 times the size. Twice the size would be 24x10x10. Your point is still accurate though, size is more important than weight (unless you get REALLY heavy).

Lot's of great info here, thanks for sharing everyone! Oh, and I would never ship dry, nor ever expect to receive anything dry...

Bob

 

[ben&bobbi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11031418#post11031418 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Maximus
After shipping literally hundreds of frags with a 99% track record, I would do these things:

1. Buy 4"x10" bags from Uline
2. Triple bag each frag
3. Use small igloo coolers (can buy at Walmart for around $10)
4. Make sure to fill void space with styro peanuts or paper towels.
5. Use Fedex priority for home delivery or ship Fedex regular overnight to Fedex depot (both standard and priority get to the Fedex depot at the same time. Why spend more on Priority?)
6. Never ship for Fri delivery
6. Use a long lasting heat pack.
7. Ship as latest as possible.

ok, i looked at this website last night. i didn't know those styrofoam boxes cost so much. How do you offset that cost. Shipping alone averages $50-60. then +$10 for box. Do you set a minimum purchase then eat the box price. Which type bags are you getting?

also, what is the thought on using thermos'? i haven't looked into the cost, but they sound like a good idea.

I am going to post this in general and try to post in prop section and see if it lasts. i will include a link back to this one, so no need to repost - unless you want to!

 

[Travis]

Lots of differing opinions here. Just goes to show there are many ways to do it.

As for shipping dry/wet I'm sure both ways will work for certain corals. I have had 700 snails shipped to me dry before and not one died. I shipped a purple monster colony to Taiwan. Something happened and the bag was leaking before it even left the US. 2 days after it left my hands the coral was dry. But it survived after being placed in the owner's tank. But I will still always continue to ship my frags submerged in water.

As for boxes. Don't waste your $$ on the insulated boxes you order from places. My wife brings home boxes from work and I buy sheets of 1/2" styrofoam and cut them to line the boxes. I have shipped on 110 degree days and also on -5 degree days and done fine. The key is having a few different heat pack and cold pack options and knowing when to use which one. The heat packs that last longer will emit less heat. I use 40 hour packs on shipments that don't need a lot of heat. The heat packs that last for short amount of time emit more heat. These I use in extreme cold conditions. I also have different sized cold packs I use depending on summer temps. But I would say that 80% of my shipments are without a heat or cold pack. The boxes I use with the styrofoam liner I make is enough insulation to keep the temp stable unless the weather is at the more extreme ends of the spectrum.

For bags, I use 3 mil bags that are 4" x 14". I will typically ship with 1/4 water to 3/4 air. The most important thing a coral needs to survive is oxygen. If there is a delay in a shipment, a coral shipped in a bag without enough oxygen can easily die of oxygen defficiency.

I always have and always will guarantee live arrival. I also always throw in freebies. I treat people the way I want to be treated.

These are all my opinions and what has worked for me. Like I said, there are many ways to do it. But don't listen to some guy that has never shipped a coral and is just quoting what he has read. Listen to the people that have had first hand experience doing it and listen to what has and has not worked for them.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Thanks for the tip about the heat emission on different hour heat packs. Due to them emitting so much heat, I usually err on the side of not shipping them as temps dropping 4-5 degrees is alot better than them rising 10 degrees F you know, but now I will search for the longer lasting heat packs.

 

[flyyyguy]

Yeah, the wrapping of the heat packs and different heat packs for different circumstances really can give you some pretty incredible control of what really goes on as far as temp. 40 hour heat packs is what I usually use as the thick quality coolers I use any stronger isnt necessary in any weather

OT kinda..........but I recall one of the first large corals shipments I ever sent out to three different people when I decided to get rid of all mushrooms out of my tanks. It was wintertime and all i could find was these 12 hour heat packs and I didnt understand the wrapping or placement of heat pack thing.........

Long story short, my heat packs melted through bags AND partially through styrofoam in places and everything was cooked and then slightly chilled. One guy told me his girlfriend opened the box and actually vomited. :lol:

I gave everyone a full refund including shipping and was very embarassed, not to mention I tortured and killed a few hundred shrooms

 

[Travis]

I too was embarrassed the first time I used one of those 12 hour heat packs. I was at the bottom of my 40 hour packs and had 2 left. I went to get one ready for the shipment and it was already spent (this seems to be the case with about 1 in every 20 for me). Then I went to use the other and same thing. So I ran to the sporting goods store and all they had was the 12 hour packs. I used it like I had been using the 40 hour packs. Well, it got too hot and bleached over half of the corals. It was embarassing for me because I don't like to have errors that were my fault. After I got more 40 hour heat packs in, I replaced the lost corals and covered the shipping since the error was mine. Hopefully, some people reading this thread can learn from our errors without having to make them on their own.

 

[five.five-six]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11038509#post11038509 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BraenDead
I hate to say this, but 12x10x10 = 1200 square inches and 24x20x20 = 9600 square inches, 8 times the size. Twice the size would be 24x10x10. Your point is still accurate though, size is more important than weight (unless you get REALLY heavy).

Lot's of great info here, thanks for sharing everyone! Oh, and I would never ship dry, nor ever expect to receive anything dry...

Bob

those would be cubic inches

I was at the LFS when he got a shipment from Malaysia, all the SPS had the base rubberbanded to a chunk of Styrofoam, it did a real nice job keeping the SPS in the water and keeping them from banging around

 

[dascharisma]

I don't know what the true success rates are, but I do know that some sps seem to do better when shipped dry. I had a friend that ran a reef shop, who bought lots of sps colonies through wholesalers. All were shipped in water, and most were fine upon arrival. However, a large percent of the table acros would rtn when they showed up. Ocassionally table acros would arrive in a bag that had been punctured and were essentially "damp". It might have been a coincidence, but those table acros that arrived damp almost always survived. Once my friend noticed this, he began shipping all tables damp and enjoyed good success with that method.

That being said, I don't recommend that anyone start shipping damp just because of a few dozen observations. I am just passing along what I've experienced.

Brad

 

[jay24k]

I've never used a heat pack but for ice packs, I generally tape them to the top of the box and I wrap it several times in paper. It prevents it from dropping the temp of the water and just keeps the surrounding area cool.

Is that what you do with the heat packs?

 

[ben&bobbi]

Jay, did you get my email?