Better future for Banggais

[avagelli]

Hi to all,
As some of you know, I spent several years learning almost everything about the natural history and conservation status of the Banggai cardinalfish.
During the last two years I have been also working on the inclusion of this species under CITES, which it is a complex task, and particularly difficult when the proposing Country is not part of the geographic range of the proposed species.

Now, I am very happy to share with you, that following my recommendation US CITES submitted the proposal for including Pterapogon kauderni under CITES at the next Conference of the Parties to be held at The Hague in June 2007, where I will personally propose this species.

Cheers
Happy New Year
Alex

 

[mwp]

What level of protection are you proposing be applied to Pterapogon kaudernii, Appendix I, II, or III, or something else?

Matt

 

[avagelli]

According to my data on population status and collecting pressure the Banggai cardinalfish qualify for Appendix I. However, we are proposing it on Appendix II, which would provide protection and at the same time to improve the accuracy of catch and trade data. In addition, it would make more feasible the development of aquaculture projects at a local level, which will benefit the local people. Going directly for Appendix I would probably be a hard seller to the local CITES authorities. So, the plan is first get this species basic protection and then move it to Appendix I.
Alex

 

[mwp]

BTW, for those that don't know, the basic jist is that IF Bangaii's are placed on Appendix I, you will not see ANY wild caught bangaii cardinalfish in your LFS's.

With the Paphiopedilums, international trade in captive raised orchids is a bit wonky, as captive bred are fine but the only easy way to prove that is to ship them still in flask (orchids are cultured under laboratory conditions. Of course, there's a fair amount of permitting involved all the same, and because the CITES Appendix I listing is GENUS WIDE, it means that any NEW species of asian slipper orchid can't be brought INTO captivity (which would help prevent poaching and help ensure species survival). Granted, we're discussing a listing for an individual species. Guess we better start breeding bangaii in ernest!

Matt

Matt

 

[David M]

So if listed on Appendix II how would this likely affect the trade? Are we talking about size or numbers restrictions, collection practices, permits or what?

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8919095#post8919095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by David M
So if listed on Appendix II how would this likely affect the trade? Are we talking about size or numbers restrictions, collection practices, permits or what?

Apendix II is what sea horses and corals are listed under already. The listing will probably stop import for short time till quota's figured out by the exporting country and permitting is ironed out. Same as with the sea horses when then got listed.

 

[mwp]

Notice how MANY of our corals, seahorses and tridacnas are already being aquacultured....without that we'd have a REALLY difficult time having this at a price we consider "affordable"...

Matt

 

[David M]

Thanks, good to know.

 

[Dman]

Time to set a section aside for Bangaii breeding.
'

 

[David M]

You know I have 4 pairs set up, two younger pair I grew out and five extra adults in reserve. I can't get a brood to save my life. Occasionally one of the males will hold for a few days but they never keep them. When I look at how many clownfish I could produce in those tanks I often think of getting rid of the bangers. I think the problem is the tanks are too small (15's and 20's). I'm going to keep them and see what happens in June, then decide.

I have a large oddball 130, an old Petco plant tank about 3 X 3 x 2. I have considered just turning them all loose in there and letting nature take it's course, but I'm sure I would lose some if I do. Opinions? has anyone seen a successful group in a tank that small? I have seen them in public aquariums living in harmony but the tanks are much larger than 130.

 

[papagimp]

David, I seem to be having similar problems with my breeding pair. Seems they would hold full term no problems in my 55g but when I moved them into a 20g long, they have yet to hold eggs longer than a week.

I would not think they would get along very in a large group in a tank that size. From my research they will claim areas up to 3 meters in length in the wild for spawning purposes. If you have the holding tanks and can "mark" the males from females (maybe some topical medication or something to make it easier to tell em apart) and give it a try. If it don't work, at least you have the other tank going and can remove the bangaii's back to their original holding tanks. It definatly seems worth the effort to try.

 

[Rungeg]

I would have thought that since these ar eso easy to breed that there would be little need to capture form the wild.

 

[papagimp]

Easy to breed doesn't mean squat when the cost to breed them is more expensive than importing wild caught specimens. I've heard time and time again that it's just too costly to breed on any commercial level as compared with other fish, such as clowns. Due to this higher cost, they would sell for more, and that price isn't enough to convince most places to buy from a breeder vs. getting some imported from the indonesia. On a personal note, I think we should just go ahead and breed them, and do our own little part to convince stores to only carry the tank bred specimens. It's better for everyone, including the poor defensless bangaii's in the wild trying to go about their daily lives.

 

[Kmiec123]

I agree.

 

[axeman45t]

Here in Australia you bangai sell anywhere from $40-$50 a fish.
I have had reasonable success with breeding them (have about 50 at the moment) in a 4'x2.5 x 2.5. I sell mine to the local soceity members for $25 and have been offered $20.
I believe they do need a larger tank to breed in and my pair will not accept any others in the tank.
One baby survived for 6 months (till i removed him) in the wier of my main. I only noticed he was there when the female came out of the rockwork with a torn lip. She had been attacking the weir to get at the other bangai.

Axeman

 

[David M]

I believe they do need a larger tank to breed in and my pair will not accept any others in the tank.

This is entiely consistent with my own experience and 90% of the reports I have heard from others. When I used to breed them I had to give each pair a minimum 40 gallon tank with no other fish. I have seen a pair ( in fact I own them now) breed in a 20 long that was crammed packed with coral, but that same pair won't do squat in the 15 I placed them in with macro's and some LR. Oh they will spawn, but he only holds for a few days.

I have tried pulling the eggs and artificially incubating but I lose them to fungas.

 

[FuEl]

It's a pity no one bothers to breed these fish here. Simply because in Singapore they are only worth retailing around $6.25 USD for 3 fishes. And the marine community here in general is not that developed to be willing to pay top dollars for CB fish.

 

[marinebetta]

I have a breeding pair....

 

[FuEl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9130327#post9130327 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marinebetta
I have a breeding pair....

Now I know what the Naturose is for... red banggais.

 

[marinebetta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9130610#post9130610 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FuEl
Now I know what the Naturose is for... red banggais.

Wouldn't that be something! :lol: