BIG tank set up, need advice on automating water chemistry and feeding...PLEASE HELP!

[adiaco]

New member to forum, but have been reading for years.

I have a fairly large reef tank at almost 800g with tons of soft and stony corals in it of all kinds. It is about 1 year old. I have a pretty sophisticated and huge pump/skimmer/reservoir system set up, but not much more, and I want to take the whole thing to the next level. I have no top off - I just turn the pump on from the reservoir when necessary. I have no dosing pumps - I just add 2 part solution to the sump weekly, etc...

In reading through the forum I realize that many of you probably think I'm crazy for not doing this from the beginning, but honestly the tank is pretty new and things have been going very well. I just know I can do better. I haven't seen the type of growth I have experienced in smaller tanks, plus I'd like to get things more automated.

My first instinct is to just start with some dosing pumps that will add the 2 part solution to the tank for a more steady supply of those elements. But then I read all these posts from people that say they would NEVER operate even a 100g tank without a calc reactor or kalkwasser drip or something.

So, many questions:
- outside of the potential of higher cost (which happily really isn't a large concern for me), what is the downside of just using the 2 part solution with a dosing pump?
- i plan to add enough dosing pumps to dose whatever I want. would it be beneficial to add a kalk reactor to the mix? Do I need to do this with a top off or can I just gradually dose it right to the sump?
- i'm really leaning away from a calcium reactor just because the room is already filled with pipes and I don't want to tangle things up even more. anyone think it is NECESSARY?
- currently I'm just occasionally testing pH, and what not. Should I invest in a probe and controller of sorts?

- Outside of water chemistry, I'd also like to start dosing food. I read a recent article in coral magazine about anorexic reefs and it freaked me out. Currently in addition to fish food I'm adding a good deal of (dead) plankton daily. Does anyone have experience with doing this via a dosing pump? It could be of the refrigerated or non-refrigerated variety.

- Also thinking about adding a wave-machine. Any comments about this?

ANY recommendations would be great guys. Help me really do this right!!

 

[Mhay]

I can't speak on many of the questions you have but a controller is a MUST IMO, I have an Apex. I only have a 75 but the easy the simplicity that has come from it is amazing. The fact that you can hook just about anything up to it makes it even better. Being able to monitor whenever where ever, alert you to problems, etc. So I would say ABSOLUTELY invest in a controller and probes.

 

[SVTour]

1) Well - I think for the calcium levels, a reactor, once tuned in correctly, becomes a more 'set and forget', other than the every few month fill up of the chambers. Cost factor wise - I can buy a $25 bin of aragonite and use it for 6 months with a $10 tank of CO2. I'm guessing a little cheaper than buying and using 2 part - but it can't be by much - still, the ROI on a calcium reactor with this would be years, if not a decade

If you're okay in adding two part - and can maintain your levels doing this, great. The only concern I would have with using a pump for these items - if I recall back when I was doing this, didn't you need to shake the container before putting it in? This may not be as 'set and forget' as you expect. Someone with experience with this may be able to answer you better.

2) Kalk reactors are nice because if you're doing an auto top off for the water - the mix is just what goes back into the tank with the fresh water. I think a container of lime runs ~ 4.00, and a couple would last you a year. If you decide to do an auto top off later on, adding one of these would be beneficial, kalk reactors are reasonable in cost.

3) Personally, I'm one of the geeks that likes to look behind the scene as much as the fish tank itself. So I'm not the best to answer this straight out, but - if you're willing to be hassled with the two part (daily, weekly or however often) then no, you don't need this. You just need to make sure you have all your levels in check.

4) Controllers help you with issues that you may not catch immediately through weekly testing. Temp and pH are two items that you can quickly view multiple times per day...and once you know the habits of your tank, can help you to maintain stability. Personally, I get piece of mind knowing that a fan can turn on and the system send me an email if the temp gets .1 degrees above my high limit. If you plan correctly - most decent controllers have wave controllers and lighting aspects to help you enjoy your tank more. Take a look at what they have to offer, I believe some have auto feeders as well. All depends on what you want to spend...sky being the limit.

If you choose any item - my recommendation would be to look further down the road than what you're immediately trying to accomplish. I've bought various 'wave makers', lighting, and all kinds of equipment through the years that ended up being just a waste of money. I wish I would have just done some things right the first time...

Good luck - :beer:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, there is never a situation where a two part additive is not a fine choice. Just keep track of salinity over time.

A CaCO3/CO2 reactor can be a good choice for a large tank, but depending on the media you use, you may have to monitor magnesium which you may not have to do with a two part.

Limewater in an ATO is also a fine choice, and it is what I choose to use, but I do not have an SPS heavy tank so it alone is fine for my system. It does require magnesium to be dealt with some other way (I just boost my water change salt mix a bit).

 

[Spar]

i went with 2-part on my sps-heavy 450g reef. i ran a calcium reactor for a little over a year but eventually decided to go back to 2-part. fine tuning is just easier and more consistent with 2-part, IMO/IME, than using a calcium reactor. my salt mix already has really high Mg and seems to maintain fine with just water changes, but probably once every 4-6 months I will have to add 100ppm or so.

i have a probe on my Apex, but don't monitor pH. as long as KH is OK, then no reason to chase pH.

and on that note, with a tank that size, an Apex, or similar controller is a must just for peace of mind if nothing else.

wave machines look ugly IMO, but to each their own. If you have the $$$$, get a few MP60's and MP40's and you can simulate a wave machine and still have a good look.

no reason you couldnt dose coral food, but seems excessive IMO. just add a bunch at the same time you feed the fish. and use a food like Rod's Food that has some already added. if you do dose it, you will want to have a small powerhead keeping it stirred up. use RO/DI water.

 

[OrQidz]

"fairly" large 800G! what all do you have in there? I don't know anything about large systems but there is a large reef subforum you might check out.

 

[Stolireef]

i went with 2-part on my sps-heavy 450g reef. i ran a calcium reactor for a little over a year but eventually decided to go back to 2-part. fine tuning is just easier and more consistent with 2-part, IMO/IME, than using a calcium reactor. my salt mix already has really high Mg and seems to maintain fine with just water changes, but probably once every 4-6 months I will have to add 100ppm or so.

i have a probe on my Apex, but don't monitor pH. as long as KH is OK, then no reason to chase pH.

and on that note, with a tank that size, an Apex, or similar controller is a must just for peace of mind if nothing else.

wave machines look ugly IMO, but to each their own. If you have the $$$$, get a few MP60's and MP40's and you can simulate a wave machine and still have a good look.

no reason you couldnt dose coral food, but seems excessive IMO. just add a bunch at the same time you feed the fish. and use a food like Rod's Food that has some already added. if you do dose it, you will want to have a small powerhead keeping it stirred up. use RO/DI water.

The dosing vs. reactor vs. kalk debate has gone on for years. As you note, they will all work. I've tried all three and prefer a Ca Reactor. That said, to truly make it plug and play, investing in a high quality regulator is a must. I use the Aquarium Plants electronic carbon doser (basically replaces those lousy needle valves) and feed my reactor off my main return to get good, stable pressure. The result is plug and play. If I want to up my Ca/Kh, I just turn up the effluent flow and turn up the bubble rate. Apex Ph controller in the reactor does the rest.

 

[Spar]

The dosing vs. reactor vs. kalk debate has gone on for years. As you note, they will all work. I've tried all three and prefer a Ca Reactor. That said, to truly make it plug and play, investing in a high quality regulator is a must. I use the Aquarium Plants electronic carbon doser (basically replaces those lousy needle valves) and feed my reactor off my main return to get good, stable pressure. The result is plug and play. If I want to up my Ca/Kh, I just turn up the effluent flow and turn up the bubble rate. Apex Ph controller in the reactor does the rest.

yep, i had all the gadgets. the carbon doser, a masterflex peristaltic pump, apex, etc. it did work great up until my calcium reactor caught on fire (different story), so I switched back to 2-part until I made a decision on what to use going forward.

where the 2-part won with me is in the fine tuning to take coral growth into account; with a calcium reactor, the reduction of pH (increase of co2) or change in speed of the output is a tinkering game, where there is no set formula to just "turn up" flow or bubbles. plus, as you let the media dissolve the KH increase gets quicker, so the KH stability wasn't stable across time. plus, you are relying on the pH probes both in the tank and for the effluent to be calibrated and accurate at all times. really for me just comes down to the number of components necessary.

whereas with 2-part you can just do a formula to translate ppm loss over a period of time to extra seconds or minutes per dosing to run the peristaltic dosing pumps. easy peezy.

regardless, we are saying the same thing that there isn't a 'wrong' choice and IME both have worked just fine. all comes down to personal experience as to which is easier for you. i travel all the time for work and there is zip-zero chance I would trust my wife to tinker with the carbon reactor if was necessary... nor would she willingly do so anyway.

one other thing that came to mind for the OP is that he mentioned 'space' as an issue. if dosing 2-part in 800g's volume, you will need to have 5+ gallons of mixed 2-part (for both calcium AND alk) at all times or else you will eventually be mixing up new 2-part ALL the time (not a fun process). The two 5+ gallons will probably take up more space than a calcium reactor setup. and you could put a calcium reactor inside the sump whereas the buckets would need to be outside the sump. something to consider at least!

 

[Stolireef]

it did work great up until my calcium reactor caught on fire (different story), so I switched back to 2-part until I made a decision on what to use going forward.

Great points. But, I've got to hear this story. Something tells me it had something to do with a very hot solenoid (another nice feature of the AP doser is that it doesn't heat up at all).

I can remember adjusting the needle valve on my last reactor and accidentally touching the solenoid. Left a lovely blister on my arm and a new lesson learned.

 

[Spar]

Great points. But, I've got to hear this story. Something tells me it had something to do with a very hot solenoid (another nice feature of the AP doser is that it doesn't heat up at all).

I can remember adjusting the needle valve on my last reactor and accidentally touching the solenoid. Left a lovely blister on my arm and a new lesson learned.

oh yes, i've burned myself on the solenoid as well; had no idea it was that hot!

my fire was just a freak accident, mostly user-error :uhoh2: i had an external Schuran calcium reactor. I had a bunch of daisy-chaining going on + one of those cheap on/off switches so I could quickly turn off the reactor circulation pump when refilling media. in the middle of the night one of the tubes going to the reactor split slightly causing a stream of water to spray out. the water could have sprayed anywhere in the fish room and wouldn't have been end of the world... of course except for the daisy-chained cheap combination area, and with complete dumb-unlucky chance that is where it sprayed, like hitting a bulls-eye... the wood and plastic all caught fire. luckily it blew a circuit making a loud pop noise + my little frog water sensor started going crazy, so woke us up, so the fire didn't spread to anywhere else. lots of melted plastic and fire burn marks, but only destroyed my calcium reactor luckily.

the wife put me on dishes and laundry duty for the next month as my punishment for almost burning our house down :hmm6:

 

[adiaco]

Thanks for all the valuable input guys. I think I'm going to just start with the 2-part solution because it is what I'm most comfortable with. Plus I want the dosing pumps there anyway to dose plankton. I setting up a little frig to pump in oyster feed and what not. You are right that a lot of the stuff needs to be shaken. Have to think about this.

I also think I'm going to take your advise and invest in an Apex. Besides being helpful, it also seems extremely cool lol. Do you know if the Apex controller can track salinity?

As for the question as to what I have in there - man a ton. All carefully picked out by my me and my wife. So even though the tank is young it looks beautiful. My biggest creature is a red carpet anemone. It's enormous. 1.5-2 feet in diameter when fully open. Also have 2 bubble-tips and a bunch of tiny anemones. I have lots of zoos, leathers, and mushrooms. I love Aussie acans so a I have a lot of them. 5 gorgonias/sea fans. I also have a lot of acros but none of them have really started growing yet. Hopefully the stabilization that this automation brings will help them along. Some duncans, an elegance, a skully....

As for fish I have some nice stuff. Purple tang, Naso tang, Vlamingi tang, 2 yellow tangs (the third died), Kole-eye tang, and a sort of velvety brown tang (don't know the name). A bunch of beautiful reef safe wrasses. A pair of blue jaw triggers. A coral beauty and a flame angel (both of which are ****ing me off because they are nipping on the the corals). Gold flake angel. Rabbitfish. A school of little blue fish. Several Anthias.... I have a lot.

Keep the advice coming guys. It's been very very helpful.

My next step will be a wave maker of some sort. I have 4 pump heads in there so I'm thinking of just setting up some sort of valve shutoff on them to disrupt the flow. Or maybe get a sea swirl. Need to do research.

Attached some pics. Thanks again

 

[Spar]

The apex has an option for a salinity probe but isn't reliable enough to offset the need of a refractometer. It is however useful to indicate changes in salinity. Might indicate your topoff failing or something else. I personally didn't do this option. I really only use my Apex for temperature and outlet controls. ORP somewhat but am not dosing ozone right now.