Biopellets - anyone running them?

[DZs]

Week 2 with WM's EB.

No cloudy water, white stringy slime or clumping, channeling of the pellets. Just a nice slow gentle roll at the top while going back down to the bottom. I have not seen any bacteria bloom in my tank. I've never had cyano or GHA problems so hopefully there will not be any problems (fingers crossed). All I did was rinsed the pellets in RO/DI since there was only a few floaters, I poured them in after modifying the reactor. Less then 30mins all pellets were gently tumbling without any floaters at the top. Since day 1, the reactor outlet has been right up against touching the skimmer for direct flow into it. Since I had no problems"¦ last week I added 250ml back into the reactor after reading here to start slow. With 500ml in the for the past week, the TLF is running between ½ to ¾ full with plenty of room for adding more pellets if needs to be later on. I currently have the reactor outside of my sump in the front so I could watch the pellets at 360 degree. This weekend I will place it into the sump. Thanks to an understanding Honey, it sure would be nice to close the stand door again. LOL

 

[Suohhen]

Thanks for the updates. Looks like everything is going great.

 

[justshoe]

Has anyone determined if the BRS pellets are equal to the Vertex or WM pellets? I am thinking of doing this one my 100G with a TLF 150 for the reactor. Just trying to decide which pellets to go for and it seems as though most are all around the same price now for 500ml.

 

[sfexplicit]

There's been some discussion that all pellets are manufactured by the same place but I've seen nothing definitive. I do know that some pellets are smaller than others. Ive heard that the WM Ecobak is supposed to be smaller so it tumbles more easily equating to being able to use a smaller pump to run the reactor. That is if you even care about pump size or power consumption.

 

[Suohhen]

No manufacturers of bio pellets admit how they make their products but this thread offers a lot of insight into the plastics.

<url="http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1883610">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1883610</url>

The functions at the top of the message box aren't working so I typed the link in myself, here's hoping I remember my html.

 

[Jacob D]

Hey Gang. How are everyone's tanks doing with the biopellets? Have any of you tested your PO4 or NO3 lately? What about your ALK?


Thanks to BrianBigoats I was able to check my PO4 on his Hanna Colorimeter; which is very accurate for anyone not familiar with them. PO4 is sitting at 0.03 right now. My GFO is about 3 months old at this point. I don't think it's doing much but I'm taking it totally offline tonight. If Brian is ok with it I'm going to test the PO4 again in a few weeks to see if there is an increase. I'm very happy with this considering I have 30+ fish and feed them 4-5 times a day.

We also tested my ALK (with an Elos kit) since the biopellets are said to lower Alk. It tested at 6 dkh... not what I was hoping for. I think it may be surpressed from running so much GFO for the last 4 months, I'm hoping it will come back up a little with water changes and that this isn't resulting from running BP's.

I didn't have a chance to check NO3 but I suspect it's low. If anyone in Stockton has a test kit and wouldn't mind running a test for me I'll buy you a beer

Lastly, Brian was kind enough to give me a squirt of ZeoBak in the sample water I had with me. I dumped that into my tank when I got back, can't hurt to have some more good bacteria roaming around.

That's the report for now. Things are looking fine. I did notice a very slight diatom bloom on my sand since ramping up to 1500ml. It could be caused by my wrasses though. They like to did up massive amounts of sand on occasion.




Oh... here are a few more BP threads that I stumbled across for anyone interested.
SPS Forum
SPS Forum
Advanced Forum

 

[DZs]

Interesting reading here. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1902310&highlight=elos+test+kits

Also, from reading up on different test methods... It seems that some of Hanna's PO4 meters are off +/- 0.3 or was .03? You may have it at zero for that test. But I would think Brian's stuff would be accurate. I forget too much reading to figure what test kits to buy... Salifert, Elos, Hanna's digitals.
Hanna's Alk checker looks like the bugs have been work out now.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1916807

I didn't bother checking NO3 or PO4 since I messed with rocks and sand, removed some macro algae. I did test DKH yesterday it was 7. NO3 has been 5-10 API, PO4 API .0-0.25 depending on the light. I haven't ran GFO since tank was new. Only newly add EB, always ran GAC and macro. My tank always seems to run 7 API test. (salt mixes up at 8.5 and CA/Mag is high) After hearing the difference from API and Elos, I haven't dosed my tank with reef builder for awhile now. I don't have SPS's like you guys do. Only a couple of birdnests, pocillopora and they look the same and still growing like weeds.

Jacob...
Have you noticed that the EB pellets are flaking? On the top of the reactor I can see what looks like plastic flakes (maybe like a dozen pieces or so). Kinda of like vegetable pea skins. In two days the EB's will be running for 3 weeks. The flow in the reactor has been low. Is this normal? It's not bacteria, it's for sure plastic shedding from the pellets.

 

[Jacob D]

The Hanna meters are +/- .03

Re: the flakes. I have noticed them too but my impression is that they're just smaller pieces that came with the rest of the pellets. I haven't notice an increase in the amount of flakes.

 

[RiOnRoxXx]

Looks like Two Little Fishies has join the fun

http://www.marinedepot.com/Two_Little_Fishes_NPX_Bioplastics_Reactor_150_w_Media_Phosphate_Reactors-Two_Little_Fishies-TL43111-FIFRISPR-vi.html

 

[Jacob D]

Everyone is getting in on the biopellet scene... this is the biggest revolution since Zeovit

 

[sfexplicit]

Still fighting cyano. Little bits here and there. Been dosing Zeobak & CoralSnow to see if it helps. Also been turkey blasting everything on regular basis. Skimmer stinks really really bad. TDS meter reading zero.

 

[Suohhen]

Instead of blowing things around in my tank I suck them out. I put a media bag on the end of the siphon tube and stick it in the sump. The media bag traps everything I suck up and I can go for as long as I want. The only hitch is sometimes I suck up small snails. I just pick them out and throw them back in the tank.

 

[Jacob D]

My skimmer started going nuts the last couple of days, I guess the 500ml of BP I recently added have kicked in. I have a very, very slight amount of diatoms on a couple of patches of sand, no cyano though (my tank has never had it).

 

[Jacob D]

I'm basically using this thread as my log since I don't keep one any more.

I was at Your Reef with Lak and Brian and had them test some water parameters for me. They use Elos test kits. I pulled my GFO out completely back on the 26th so almost 2 weeks ago. Here are the numbers I got:

PO4 - 0 (not as sensitive as the Hanna meter which reported .03 about 2 weeks ago)
NO3 - 5
ALK - 7
CAL - 400
MAG - 1250

...not too bad. I think I'm in decent enough shape to start keeping some SPS... until they start to take off anyway. It seems like the BP are doing their thing. Since bringing my total volume of BP up to 1500ml I have noticed some increased diatom growth in a couple of spots on the sand, so I decreased the flow a little through my reactor. It's nothing of concern, but I'm keeping an eye on it.


Bare in mind that I feed my 30+ fish 5 times a day on average, and I change about 10% of my water each month. Considering that it would appear that the BP are working *really* well.

 

[RiOnRoxXx]

Thanks for the updates Jake. I was under my stand yesterday taking measurements and gauging out where I can stick a reactor. I think once the tax man deposits my money in my bank account I'm going to run BioPellets.

 

[sfexplicit]

Been dosing Zeobak to help combat the cyano. I think the extra bacteria(or whatevers in that blue bottle) has consumed my pellets. Within about a month my pellets have basically dissolved or shrank in size(no laughing please). It looks like my pellet reactor has only half the pellets that were in it a month ago. Weird.

I do not plan on adding more to it unless my NO3 or PO4 rise. Since starting this whole thing the color on my sps has never been better. But then recently some have gone pale n starting to look sickly. Couple pieces have STN on the side or middle. I think I went too far and am starving some of the corals. Some others have also experienced this in another thread under sps keepers forum. My alk, ca, & mag have been as stable as it's ever been since I hooked up a Profilux standalone doser.

I'm hoping that I've stripped too much out of the water and just to need to feed more. In the last 2 weeks I've added 2 more fish and will add more to increase bioload on my system. Used to feed 1X a day and for last 2 weeks now feed fish at least 2X a day. Last week picked up some Aquavitro Fuel from Tropical Haven as it's supposed to have aminos as well as over stuff in it to feed corals. Not too expensive either. If that doesn't work I'm going to try some Zeo Amino Acids. Night before last NO3 undetectable via Elos. PO4 0.00 via Hanna Pocket Checker.

I know those of us who have started the pellets have done so for different reasons. My biggest thing was to get better color in my sps which I've struggled with for some time. I believe it was due to my NO3 & PO4 being too high and my water parameters not being stable. I also wanted to eliminate the cost and maintenance of changing out the GFO. It took at least 6 months of pellets before I really noticed a real difference in color. I think my nutrient problems are leaching out of my liverock and sandbed though. Color on some of my sps look good while some could be better. I think the sps game is about chasing those colors cuz nobody wants brown sticks. And it's about feeding your fish and corals and then effectively exporting excess nutrients. I hope I eventually find that balance. Sorry for the long lost.

 

[Suohhen]

Thanks for the updates, it's nice to see how things progress for each person individually. What follows is not a comment about anyone's setup but rather a general reminder about something I consider very important to be mindful of when using BPs.

I have already brought this up, but water quality is not just about nitrate and phosphate. They can be good barometers for water quality but direct export of these things through media can hide other problems. Continuing a good water change schedule is critical as well as employing other means of nutrient export. Live Rock is necessary, skimmers are amazing, and Refugiums are nice but IMO quality activated carbon is a huge boon. The best thing about BPs is the stability in N & P levels they can provide but I really don't see them as a fix or patch.

 

[Jacob D]

Sean, I'm not really sure where to begin in response. In that short post you brought up a few points that are worth debating

It might be best left for another thread since this one is for discussion of biopellets. I think if this is going to tangent away from BP's you should open another thread to discuss the following more specifically:

point:

I have already brought this up, but water quality is not just about nitrate and phosphate. They can be good barometers for water quality but direct export of these things through media can hide other problems.

I agree that water quality is about more than N & P... but those are things we can test... and they're a couple of the primary chemicals that contribute to plant growth which in our case is algae and I'm talking about nuisance algae and zooxanthellae. Since most of us don't want to look at a tank full of nuisance algae or brown corals N & P are high priority targets.

point:

They can be good barometers for water quality but direct export of these things through media can hide other problems.

Not sure what you consider direct export, but I don't see how using BP would hide other problems more than any other means of getting rid of excess nutrients. What is the difference in your opinion between using BP vs. say, running a larger skimmer, or running a bunch of activated carbon?

point:

Continuing a good water change schedule is critical as well as employing other means of nutrient export. Live Rock is necessary, skimmers are amazing, and Refugiums are nice but IMO quality activated carbon is a huge boon.

So BP = direct export/masks problems but activated carbon = a better method? I don't disagree that carbon is probably the most efficient way to remove organics from the water... I can't imagine running a carbon bed large enough to out compete a skimmer, and I don't want to think of the cost.

point:

The best thing about BPs is the stability in N & P levels they can provide...

Yes! This is exactly what I like about them! I'm less concerned about numbers (I don't own any test kits) than keeping things stable.

point:

...but I really don't see them as a fix or patch.

I don't either. I see them as part of a well rounded system. I want to add that I don't consider there to be any problems (hidden or otherwise) with my system. I have a lot of fish, and I feed a lot. For me using BP's is an alternative to an even larger skimmer, more LR, more cabon, GFO, or any other methods that I could use to deal with the bioload.


I'm all for discussion on any of the above points, but if it's not about BP please start a new thread and post a link to it.

 

[DZs]

Thanks for the update. It's nice to know what can happen in the future since I'm several of weeks behind you.

From what I've read that some people did get diatoms about the same week period of running the pellets and what they did was add more pellets. Now, I'm not sure whether it was die off as time passed, or if the additional pellets cured this.

Week 4 EB pellets has started channeling, I just wiggled the reactor and "slightly" turned up the flow and all is well again. Skimmer still has a nice foam head and is pulling stuff but not nothing like it did in week 1-2. I do use poly filter at the outlet of the overflow box that has been needed to be rinsed/changed daily for the last 1.5 weeks. My glass hasn't need cleaning like it used to, going on day 6 without touching it. Nice change LOL
I've added several of days longer between water changes and reduced the amount I used to do. Nitrates is still dropping down. Hopefully the new test kits will arrive today, then I'll post the results up.
Thanks again everyone for their updates.

 

[Suohhen]

Jacob I think there is plenty of opportunity to argue the finer points of reef keeping but that is not what I was trying to do with my post. I was simply trying to help people keep BPs in perspective. That is also why I said I was not referring to anyone's setup. I respect you guys, it would be arrogant of me to criticize you. I wanted to remind the other people who may be reading this forum, especially the newer reefers to keep everything in perspective.

Everything beyond live rock, lighting, water changes, and water flow is employed to increase chances of success. That is to say I have seen plenty of systems with only these things that were successful but most successful systems utilize a lot of other things: regular water changes, powerful protein skimming, a proper clean up crew, a nice sized refugium, etc. So I feel that these techniques have benefits, but I cannot say they are necessary or even prove what the benefits are. It is up to the individual aquarist to observe their own tank.

I agree that water quality is about more than N & P... but those are things we can test... and they're a couple of the primary chemicals that contribute to plant growth which in our case is algae and I'm talking about nuisance algae and zooxanthellae. Since most of us don't want to look at a tank full of nuisance algae or brown corals N & P are high priority targets.

My point is that elevated nitrate and phosphate levels indicate that possibly something else is wrong in the system. I know "direct export" is a horrible usage, but what I mean is something removing them and only them. Its an even worse term for BPs cause they don't actually remove anything from the system.

So BP = direct export/masks problems but activated carbon = a better method? I don't disagree that carbon is probably the most efficient way to remove organics from the water... I can't imagine running a carbon bed large enough to out compete a skimmer, and I don't want to think of the cost.

I didn't say activated carbon is better. I know I bring up GAC a lot on this forum but it is because I like it, not because I think it is necessary or better than any one thing. It doesn't even do the same thing as protein skimming. I believe protein skimming is just as important as live rock in today's reef tank, but the key word there is believe.