Bluemorningwind
In Memoriam
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Biospira tank cycle help!!!
- Thread starter tktodd
- Start date
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mayor10
New member
I definitely agree with fareforce on the shrimp. Your cycle is already underway, you don't need anything special to "finish it out". Nature will do that. The shrimp will just help create more of a bio-load, therefore a "heavier" cycle. This will be preparing the tank for a real bio-load (live fish), with more active bacteria.
Once you can keep raw shrimp in the tank and read nothing but Nitrates, then your tank is cycled. At that point add livestock slowly. Everytime you add new livestock your tank will go through a mini-cycle. By going slowly the spike in ammonia and nitrite will be so small and short lived that it won't bother the livestock.
I just cycled a tank with uncured liverock. It actually went unusually fast, about 10 days. But, even after that I still added raw shrimp to be sure. I'm now about 20 days in, and the only thing in the tank are hermit crabs and snails.
Taking your time and being patient is really important in this hobby. Not just for cycling, everything.
Someone's sig on this board is "Only bad things happen quickly". It's a good thing to remember.
Once you can keep raw shrimp in the tank and read nothing but Nitrates, then your tank is cycled. At that point add livestock slowly. Everytime you add new livestock your tank will go through a mini-cycle. By going slowly the spike in ammonia and nitrite will be so small and short lived that it won't bother the livestock.
I just cycled a tank with uncured liverock. It actually went unusually fast, about 10 days. But, even after that I still added raw shrimp to be sure. I'm now about 20 days in, and the only thing in the tank are hermit crabs and snails.
Taking your time and being patient is really important in this hobby. Not just for cycling, everything.
Someone's sig on this board is "Only bad things happen quickly". It's a good thing to remember.
Bluemorningwind
In Memoriam
Don't bother adding the prawn. It's just another type of potion.
The bacteria respond without any extra crap like prawns and potions.
Once you add livestock, consider that bacteria increase very rapidly and in proportion to the addition.
You only need to control the input of livestock and not the bacteria. YOU can not control the bacteria. It is crap to believe you can.
The bacteria respond without any extra crap like prawns and potions.
Once you add livestock, consider that bacteria increase very rapidly and in proportion to the addition.
You only need to control the input of livestock and not the bacteria. YOU can not control the bacteria. It is crap to believe you can.
fareforce
Premium Member
This is not true at all.
By adding raw shrimp into your tank, it will begin to decay quickly. In the decaying process it releases ammonia. The amount of ammonia released will simulate the waste produced by the fish you are wanting to add.
Lets say for example you are wanting to add 3 fish to start. You would need to use enough raw shrimp to produce the same amount of waste (bio-load) that the three fish would.
By doing this when your tank can handle the bio-load and your ammonia reads zero, you can remove the shrimp, and add the fish with little or no impact on your ammonia readings.
If you did not do this, and you added three fish, your ammonia levels would jump up dramatically. This will cause an expotential problem. The high the ammonia levels, the more stress it will cause your fish. The more stress your fish are under the more ammonia they will produce.. I think you can see where this is going.
If I am wrong someone please tell me, because apparently my successful reef tank is in a lot of trouble!
JennyL
New member
It's really sad to see some people resorting to insults and name calling in this thread.
tktodd stated he is cycling with Bio-Spira and base rock(not live rock) and I was trying to help him with the process from my experience.
The bottled ammonia w/ only water added is not some "magic potion" but is very clean as opposed to a rotting piece of shrimp and simply another way to add ammonia to feed the bacteria. It is also very inexpensive.
Bio-Spira is simply live bacteria.
tktodd, if you want to pm me , I will be happy to walk you through the process but because of the tone of this thread, I will not post here again. I am very sorry you were insulted, most people in this hobby want to help, not throw out insults.
tktodd stated he is cycling with Bio-Spira and base rock(not live rock) and I was trying to help him with the process from my experience.
The bottled ammonia w/ only water added is not some "magic potion" but is very clean as opposed to a rotting piece of shrimp and simply another way to add ammonia to feed the bacteria. It is also very inexpensive.
Bio-Spira is simply live bacteria.
tktodd, if you want to pm me , I will be happy to walk you through the process but because of the tone of this thread, I will not post here again. I am very sorry you were insulted, most people in this hobby want to help, not throw out insults.
fareforce
Premium Member
I will second this motion..
If you need more help you can also PM me as well.. The only thing I dont like about straight ammonia is it smells really bad when dosing.
The shrimp way is messy, but you can put them in a fliter bag for easy retrieval.
I hope everything works out, and if you need some live sand to get you started let me know. I will send you a cup or two if you pay for the postage. This will help the jump start process as well.
ZoeReef
New member
Well ignorance is apparently bliss.
I am a bonafide newbie. Never done this before. I bought a 24g aquapod w/ HQI, 24 lbs of LR and bio-spira. I also bought 20 lbs live sand. I just kerplunked it all in the water, and watched the water seem to carbonate over the next two days. Bubbles were rising off the sand and off the LR. I assume it was nitrogen, but just a guess. I never saw any kind of spike in anything. I added a blue damsel and he was happy happy.
About two weeks ago nitrates hit 40, I did a big water change and dropped it to 20. I added a Remora skimmer and nitrates are dropping like a rock.
I'm now six weeks into it everything is alive as can be. For me, it all worked as advertised. I realize this is a different situation, but along with the LR, bio-spira did something good, whatever it was.
I am a bonafide newbie. Never done this before. I bought a 24g aquapod w/ HQI, 24 lbs of LR and bio-spira. I also bought 20 lbs live sand. I just kerplunked it all in the water, and watched the water seem to carbonate over the next two days. Bubbles were rising off the sand and off the LR. I assume it was nitrogen, but just a guess. I never saw any kind of spike in anything. I added a blue damsel and he was happy happy.
About two weeks ago nitrates hit 40, I did a big water change and dropped it to 20. I added a Remora skimmer and nitrates are dropping like a rock.
I'm now six weeks into it everything is alive as can be. For me, it all worked as advertised. I realize this is a different situation, but along with the LR, bio-spira did something good, whatever it was.
gobygoby
Active member
ok people......
a nitrogen cycle takes ~8 weeks....
2.5 weeks ammonia
2.5 weeks nitrites
2.5 Weeks Ammonia
adding things like LR, LS, Shrimp, even Bio-spira can speed this up...some.
BUT you cant expect to set up a tank and be able to start heavily adding livestock the next day.....nor for 100% of everything you put in to survive.
Zoereef,
thats great that nothing has happened till now....but you still cant brag, or pretend that because you dumped everything in, that it works.....because now your having problems....and you said it your self, your a newbie. and what does "seem to carbonate over the next two days" even mean?????
any idiot can throw something in an aquarium and get it to live....the key is learning how to make it thrive.
The thing that makes me mad, is that newbies take the idea that corals and SW fish are disposable....did you know that 90% (or more) of livestock for our tanks comes straight out of the ocean? have you seen the news recently? Coral bleaching, whole reefs being wiped out, more and more animals being put on the endangered species list......
....IMO, this hobby is not for your average person, who buys a fish, lets it die, then buys another, and another, and another..... You need to know how to take care of the animal properly. Would you let your dog or even kids live in horrible conditions and feed them bread and water, because its really all they need?
We dont spend thousands of dollars on this hobby just because we like to blow money....
ignorance may be bliss.....but not doing a little research about the hobby, and making rediculous claims is just stupid.
tktodd,
people make mistakes...but I am glad to see that you are trying to correct them.
Goby
a nitrogen cycle takes ~8 weeks....
2.5 weeks ammonia
2.5 weeks nitrites
2.5 Weeks Ammonia
adding things like LR, LS, Shrimp, even Bio-spira can speed this up...some.
BUT you cant expect to set up a tank and be able to start heavily adding livestock the next day.....nor for 100% of everything you put in to survive.
Zoereef,
thats great that nothing has happened till now....but you still cant brag, or pretend that because you dumped everything in, that it works.....because now your having problems....and you said it your self, your a newbie. and what does "seem to carbonate over the next two days" even mean?????
any idiot can throw something in an aquarium and get it to live....the key is learning how to make it thrive.
The thing that makes me mad, is that newbies take the idea that corals and SW fish are disposable....did you know that 90% (or more) of livestock for our tanks comes straight out of the ocean? have you seen the news recently? Coral bleaching, whole reefs being wiped out, more and more animals being put on the endangered species list......
....IMO, this hobby is not for your average person, who buys a fish, lets it die, then buys another, and another, and another..... You need to know how to take care of the animal properly. Would you let your dog or even kids live in horrible conditions and feed them bread and water, because its really all they need?
We dont spend thousands of dollars on this hobby just because we like to blow money....
ignorance may be bliss.....but not doing a little research about the hobby, and making rediculous claims is just stupid.
tktodd,
people make mistakes...but I am glad to see that you are trying to correct them.
Goby
Q-ball
Premium Member
[flamealert]
Honestly, it's very disappointing to see people that have to resort to insults to get their point across. Everyone was new to this hobby at some point in time and bought something that they didn't need or was "garbage". Let's remember that this is the New to the Hobby forum and try to be more helpful, k?
Honestly, it's very disappointing to see people that have to resort to insults to get their point across. Everyone was new to this hobby at some point in time and bought something that they didn't need or was "garbage". Let's remember that this is the New to the Hobby forum and try to be more helpful, k?
Okay, I should have started reading this thread earlier, but I was tired of discussing BioSpira and equivalent products. I'll add a few of my opinions:
1) The claims for BioSpira are not backed by any science that I have seen. This type of ammonia spike is to be expected, with or without such an additive.
2) Live rock can arrive with anywhere from minimal to consideriable die-off, so the time to get a tank "cycled" can vary from a few hours to weeks. The only way to be safe is to measure progress with an ammonia test kit and wait. I think this is the main reason some people report "success" with BioSpira: they never needed it much in the first place.
3) Amquel Plus will not slow or delay the curing. It binds to the ammonia and renders it less toxic, but the ammonia still remains in the tank and must be broken down.
4) I see no value in adding dead shrimp or other ammonia sources to a tank with live rock. The live rock comes with bacteria, etc, and adding ammonia just adds more toxic material to a system that contains organisms we're trying to keep alive.
1) The claims for BioSpira are not backed by any science that I have seen. This type of ammonia spike is to be expected, with or without such an additive.
2) Live rock can arrive with anywhere from minimal to consideriable die-off, so the time to get a tank "cycled" can vary from a few hours to weeks. The only way to be safe is to measure progress with an ammonia test kit and wait. I think this is the main reason some people report "success" with BioSpira: they never needed it much in the first place.
3) Amquel Plus will not slow or delay the curing. It binds to the ammonia and renders it less toxic, but the ammonia still remains in the tank and must be broken down.
4) I see no value in adding dead shrimp or other ammonia sources to a tank with live rock. The live rock comes with bacteria, etc, and adding ammonia just adds more toxic material to a system that contains organisms we're trying to keep alive.
Bluemorningwind
In Memoriam
I guess I was a bit heavy and I am sorry if you were really worried by my blunt posts.
I imagined we all had thick skins and knew better than to add ammonia, dead prawns and very expensive potions to our tanks.
I guess I was very wrong.
All the best with it anyway.
I imagined we all had thick skins and knew better than to add ammonia, dead prawns and very expensive potions to our tanks.
I guess I was very wrong.
All the best with it anyway.
Bluemorningwind
In Memoriam
It's all good,...
...Oh............, baby!
...Oh............, baby!
Marinemom
New member
I have only been doing saltwater for a short time (although I,done freshwater for 10 years) and from everything I,ve heard and read, the key to doing saltwater correctly is to be patientnd go very slow. I know this is hard but just think of how beautiful everything is going to be when everything is the way you want it. Also, the addition of some good live rock will only benefit your setup because this will provide excellent biological filteration. It also looks more natural and in my opinion is pretty cool. Just go slow and everything will work itself out. I hope this helps.
Marinemom
Marinemom
