Blue spotted jaws...anyone successful?

[rickyh24]

Just got one of these a few days ago. He is the best fish I have ever owned already. Quite the rubble hoarder though.

 

[Terra Ferma]

Temperature wise the surface water temps in the Southern Sea of Cortez can range from 90 degree highs in the summer to mid 60's lows in the winter. Generally it is quite a bit colder when you get down 20-30 feet from the sea surface near shore.

 

[philter4]

I have posted this so many times that I think I should make a sticky about it. They will do fine at normal aquarium temps for years if they are collected properly. I have dove with commercial collectors and collected them myself and have kept them in a tank for many years, the last 7 I had 2 jumped and the others were all still alive when I took the tank down for a move and didn't set it back up.

This is the very short version of why I think they don't do well, look up some of the other BSJ posts if you want more details. When I was down in the Sea of Cortez here is what I saw and how they collect them. First they take a 2 inch PVC coupler and tie a mesh bag to one end. they make lots and lots of these traps. They dive down to where the colonies are and put the open end of the PVC over the jawfish burrow and then squirt bleach down the hole. The fish immediately shoot up and into the mesh bag and they have caught them.

BTW, ask any scuba diver, while surface temps vary greatly once you dive down the temps become very stable and are less likely to change with the time of year. Also I have seen thermals where I was collecting tropicals and the temps went from 80's to below 60 instantly as the thermal passed by. The tropical fish didn't even miss a beat, not changing any activity or acting differently. I have only rarely seen a wild fish with ich and after the thermal passes the temps go immediately back to normal and the fish are fine so there is a lot more to stress related temp diseases then just the temps.

Now I know we are talking about sustained temps vs a passing thermal, there is one thing that no one ever seems to talk about: The areas where they collect the jaws is also the same areas where they collect passers and cortez angels, along with most of the other fish we keep from the Pacific side of Mexico. Why are these fish not suffering the same fate and the jaws? My thoughts and observations are they are not collected by squirting bleach in their faces.

 

[Sigmund]

Have had my current one for 2yrs now. Keep temp at 74-78 Range. Have always tried to keep my reef tanks at this temp and have been succesful with various fish that are considered difficult to keep:
Angels: Multi-bar, Golden, Venustus
Butterflies: Copperband
Wrasses: Blue Star Leopard changed from female to male
Jawfish: Blue Spot

Have kept many jawfish (Bullseye, Tiger, RingEye, YellowHead, Dusky, and have a Varigated and a Blue Spot right now). The thing I have most observed different about the Blue Spot then other jawfish is as follows:
* Much more specific about their burrows, definetly want deeper sand beds, prefer to have multiple entrances / exits all connected thru a tunneling system
* Desire and ability to jump out of a tank is unmatched by any other fish, will find even the smallest crack. More likely to look to jump when not satisfied with their burrows
* More active and social then any other jawfish species I have had, as long as their tankmates are not to boistorous

Not sure temp is as critical a factor as stress (IMO). I have seen BSJ get the BSJ labeled condition (pale, flaking skin etc.) when stressed, and the recover when the stresser goes away. Have also kept BSJ in the past at temps in the summer in the high 70's low 80's successfully for multiple years, as mentioned above though, I find keeping my reef at a lower temp a best practice in my personal experience.

 

[Angel*Fish]

I have posted this so many times that I think I should make a sticky about it. They will do fine at normal aquarium temps for years if they are collected properly. I have dove with commercial collectors and collected them myself and have kept them in a tank for many years, the last 7 I had 2 jumped and the others were all still alive when I took the tank down for a move and didn't set it back up.

This is the very short version of why I think they don't do well, look up some of the other BSJ posts if you want more details. When I was down in the Sea of Cortez here is what I saw and how they collect them. First they take a 2 inch PVC coupler and tie a mesh bag to one end. they make lots and lots of these traps. They dive down to where the colonies are and put the open end of the PVC over the jawfish burrow and then squirt bleach down the hole. The fish immediately shoot up and into the mesh bag and they have caught them.

BTW, ask any scuba diver, while surface temps vary greatly once you dive down the temps become very stable and are less likely to change with the time of year. Also I have seen thermals where I was collecting tropicals and the temps went from 80's to below 60 instantly as the thermal passed by. The tropical fish didn't even miss a beat, not changing any activity or acting differently. I have only rarely seen a wild fish with ich and after the thermal passes the temps go immediately back to normal and the fish are fine so there is a lot more to stress related temp diseases then just the temps.

Now I know we are talking about sustained temps vs a passing thermal, there is one thing that no one ever seems to talk about: The areas where they collect the jaws is also the same areas where they collect passers and cortez angels, along with most of the other fish we keep from the Pacific side of Mexico. Why are these fish not suffering the same fate and the jaws? My thoughts and observations are they are not collected by squirting bleach in their faces.

I really appreciate your posting your experiences - and also wish there were some way to put that in a sticky. Along with warnings that they may do better in cooler temps. In my opinion the jury is still out.

I don't know anything about large angels, but certainly there are some fish that are much tougher than others. Jawfish in general are rather sensitive fish.

 

[Angel*Fish]

Have had my current one for 2yrs now. Keep temp at 74-78 Range. Have always tried to keep my reef tanks at this temp and have been succesful with various fish that are considered difficult to keep:
Angels: Multi-bar, Golden, Venustus
Butterflies: Copperband
Wrasses: Blue Star Leopard changed from female to male
Jawfish: Blue Spot

Have kept many jawfish (Bullseye, Tiger, RingEye, YellowHead, Dusky, and have a Varigated and a Blue Spot right now). The thing I have most observed different about the Blue Spot then other jawfish is as follows:
* Much more specific about their burrows, definetly want deeper sand beds, prefer to have multiple entrances / exits all connected thru a tunneling system
* Desire and ability to jump out of a tank is unmatched by any other fish, will find even the smallest crack. More likely to look to jump when not satisfied with their burrows
* More active and social then any other jawfish species I have had, as long as their tankmates are not to boistorous

Not sure temp is as critical a factor as stress (IMO). I have seen BSJ get the BSJ labeled condition (pale, flaking skin etc.) when stressed, and the recover when the stresser goes away. Have also kept BSJ in the past at temps in the summer in the high 70's low 80's successfully for multiple years, as mentioned above though, I find keeping my reef at a lower temp a best practice in my personal experience.

You may be the only person who has ever seen a fish come back from "bsjd".

I agree stress is the thing. The thought about higher temp is that it may add stress for them. Plenty of people have tried these fish in deep sand in low stress tanks and still had them die.

 

[Sigmund]

Perhaps it was not the same condition.

As mentioned the one I am speaking of was pale, looked scraped-up, fins were a little frayed. Seems similar to what I have heard described as BSJ Syndrome.

Was not trying to infer that BSJ Syndrome was easy or even possible to reverse, just commenting that in my experience that the condition of the fish when captured, and the overall stress of the fish are more relevant factors than temperature.

 

[Angel*Fish]

Perhaps it was not the same condition.

As mentioned the one I am speaking of was pale, looked scraped-up, fins were a little frayed. Seems similar to what I have heard described as BSJ Syndrome.

Was not trying to infer that BSJ Syndrome was easy or even possible to reverse, just commenting that in my experience that the condition of the fish when captured, and the overall stress of the fish are more relevant factors than temperature.

I never know whether my comments are going to be taken to heart or barely noticed. I should have worded that differently.

What has mostly been seen of these fish is dying, not living. So we have to be very, very careful encouraging anyone to "try" one. Watching one of these suffer this awful death is tough to do and too many have been killed. It was pretty horrible and left such a bad memory, I doubt I would ever get another, even if there were a guarantee of health.

The only reason I'm not screaming, "leave them in the ocean!" is that there seems to be some evidence collection has improved.

 

[Sigmund]

Angel*Fish

I took your comments only in a positive manner. Just wanted to clarify "for others" as well, what I was trying to communicate.

I think everyone before they buy anything for their tank need to be honest with themselves to determine if they have the proper set-up (tank, equipment, design) to support what they are considering, and the experience in the hobby, before they purchase anything. As we know unfortunately this is often not done. BSJ definetely have requirements that need to be considered for any hope of success, most of these have been listed in this thread, and others about BSJ.

 

[MikeandNicole]

I have seen BSJ disease first hand and I have seen a BSJ get what looks like "road rash" as someone in another thread said. BSJ disease is quick and the skin is literally falling off the fish, was one of the worst things my wife and I had seen in almost 20 years combined of fish keeping. The fish was fine the day before, did not come out to eat and had the disease the next morning and was dead shortly after that.

I currently have a BSJ and have had it since december, we got it from another reefer that had it for about a year. The other reefer had it in a tank without a deep sand bed (an inch or less) and then it was in the sump with not sand until we picked it up. To say it was a bit stressed was an understatement. We had our 30g setup for a BSJ so we were good to go. The fish went in and right away had that pale flaky skin thing going on but it was not BSJ disease. We were able to catch the fish, put it in QT and treat with erithromycin. The white patches went away and his behavior improved dramatically. His tale which was damaged when we bought him is growing back in very slowly, but it getting better. His one pectoral was removed by my stupid female clown, and i don't think that will grow back but he is doing ok. I don't think he will ever have that real deep yellow coloring, but he is acting very much like a jawfish.

Tank info: 30g with lid and deep sand bed, lit by LEDs (being moved into a 45g cube shortly). We keep the tank around 75 degrees which is much easier with the LEDs (had a MH pendant before this). For full disclosure we lost one BSJ to jumping (yes we had a lid, yes he found his way out anyway) and one BSJ to BSJ disease so we are currently batting about .333

 

[Angel*Fish]

Many dedicated, determined experienced aquarists have tried and failed. The problem has been more than lack of proper conditions. It's either an ignorance of proper conditions (temp) or collection. I don't mean to factor out the fact that people have tried them in busy tanks, without enough sand and rubble, etc., but enough highly qualified people have tried and failed that clearly something else is at work.

I'm inclined to put quite a bit of trust what Philter is saying.

 

[gmpolan]

Personally a fish best left in the ocean but as noted, extreme jumpers and very difficult to maintain due to temp swings. Most people end up loosing them a few months in but def a beautiful fish with a great personality

 

[Kole Tang]

There is a couple in the same tank at the MN zoo. The person who maintains it is Doug from fishgeeks.org (or last I heard). Maybe give him an email for care info on them.