Bluebayou's pre-build thread, ideas and advice

[bluebayou]

I've been reading and learning as much as I can in preparation for my first tank. I just want to run my ideas by everyone and get any advice or suggestions from people that have been there and done that.

Overview:
Tank: 120, 180 or 200DD, mixed corals (Ricordias, Zoas, Clams, Acro, Monti, Chalice, Torch, Hammer,) fish mainly small passive with a Xanthicthys trigger, and a few unusual but passive tangs if I can get away with it. Emphasis on the small passive side.
Overflow: Coast to coast on short side with BeanAnimal type silent overflow. http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx
Sump: 75gal with skimmer and refugium, see this setup: http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/chvy/chvy_sump.html I think this is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for.
Return pump: Sequence Reeflo Dart
Skimmer: I-Tech 200
Lighting: DIY LED, DIY drivers, controllers, etc.
Circulation: I don't know brand yet. Want a horizontal gyre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz15R0gVMPA, clockwise/counterclockwise.

Tank:
I don't want a small tank because I want to maximize my stocking possibilities and it seems that the cost doesn't really scale with size. A 180 and related equipment (besides lighting) for example is only a little more than a 120 setup. Additionally the extra water volume will make for more stability. Deep (width) tanks seem to add a lot of interesting aquascaping possibilities so the Perfecto Deep Dimensions look like a good option. I'm having a lot of trouble deciding between a 180 (72"x24") and a 200DD (48"x36"). Both have the same area of 1,728" but is the 180 more appropriate for certain active fish due to the long 6' run? My stocking plans will be mainly small passive fish but I would like to have the possibility of one or two larger active fish.

Overflow:
A coast to coast overflow combined with a BeanAnimal silent and failsafe system just makes sense on so many levels. This is definitely something I want, it's just a question of implementation. Has anyone done this? I am thinking of buying an undrilled tank and building an overflow box inside the tank and drilling the three bulkheads.

Sump:
I want a 75gal sump with skimmer section on one end, refugium on the other. I want an external Dart pump so I need to drill the refugium. Does anyone know the minimum length of a stand to incorporate this type of setup? The sump is 48" and add the pump and connectors and I would think that you are at pretty much 72" minimum if the sump is drilled on the end. If a DD tank (36" width) was used can you drill the middle of the sump, have an immediate street ell going to the side and have the pump sitting parallel to the sump? Is there enough space (~18" add width in the stand)? Is having the pump behind the sump undesirable for other reasons (maintenance, ect)?

Aquascaping:
I want various islands, keeping rock away from all sides of the glass as well as leaving a lengthwise channel in the middle. My high water movement zones will be at the edges of the tank with the gyre (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz15R0gVMPA), the middle channel will have a constant flow to the far end from the return with a penductor added.

Lighting:
I really like the flexibility that a DIY LED project will give me. My idea is to have individual heatsinks for every LED and build a mounting setup where each LED can be moved and tilted to create lighting zones within the tank. Additionally optics can be added or removed where desired. In this way I can angle the edge LEDs to not shine on the glass, create bright zones for SPS and other zones for low light. I also want a gradient from front to back so the back is barely lit giving a greater illusion of depth.

Any thoughts or advice? -BB

 

[tmz]

For the fish you listed, I'd certainly favor the 6 foot length. The 36 inch depth on the other tank will also make it harder to light the lower areas. It's harder to reach into a 36 inch tank for maintenance too.

The open islands of rock aquascaping you propose should work well for fish that like to swim alot.They,the triggers and tanks also like caves and overhangs for resting/sleeping.

As for tangs,it's a good idea in my opinion to avoid stocking those of the same species. That is :a mix( two or three) of acanthurus, zebrasomma , paracanthurus ,naso and/ or ctenocchaetus would fare better in terms of aggression ,imo ,than several of the same species. Research the specimens you want as some surgeonfish are notably more aggressive than others and some grow quite large.

The xanthichthys triggers are terrific fish but will probably rule out shrimp.

 

[toddmh]

you will be rolling the dice on that Trigger fish,even though some say this is the most reef safe Trigger known..

 

[bluebayou]

For the fish you listed, I'd certainly favor the 6 foot length. The 36 inch depth on the other tank will also make it harder to light the lower areas. It's harder to reach into a 36 inch tank for maintenance too.

The open islands of rock aquascaping you propose should work well for fish that like to swim alot.They,the triggers and tanks also like caves and overhangs for resting/sleeping.

As for tangs,it's a good idea in my opinion to avoid stocking those of the same species. That is :a mix( two or three) of acanthurus, zebrasomma , paracanthurus ,naso and/ or ctenocchaetus would fare better in terms of aggression ,imo ,than several of the same species. Research the specimens you want as some surgeonfish are notably more aggressive than others and some grow quite large.

The xanthichthys triggers are terrific fish but will probably rule out shrimp.

The deep dimension tanks are actually 27" which is still high and I'm sure still a pain to work with (step stools ect.) I should have made it more clear that when I was talking about depth I meant front to back depth (width).

I think I want to focus on small passive fish and I realize how much that limits me to the larger fish. I would love a crosshatch or bluethroat trigger but they as well as the tangs will be secondary to the main goal which is to have various trios of mixed anthias, a flame hawk, dragonettes, maybe a pistol shrimp and pair of gobies, a false perc clown pair, a flasher wrasse pair, firefish, group of apogons, etc. My idea is that it would be more interesting to have 20 small fish than 3 large.

I also don't like the idea of putting a large active fish in a tank barely large enough for it to move, so I imagine that even a 180 would be too small for a crosshatch trigger for example.

 

[bluebayou]

you will be rolling the dice on that Trigger fish,even though some say this is the most reef safe Trigger known..

What exactly do you mean? Problems with the trigger and corals or smaller fish or both?

 

[block head]

i'd give this build some more thought. a cheap 120 vs 200+ dd custom dry box or calfo over flow will cost you. monthly upkeep of a 120 t5 vs 200 diy led is going to be significant. if it were me i'd pick up a nice used t5/ 120 and run it for a bit.

 

[bluebayou]

i'd give this build some more thought. a cheap 120 vs 200+ dd custom dry box or calfo over flow will cost you. monthly upkeep of a 120 t5 vs 200 diy led is going to be significant. if it were me i'd pick up a nice used t5/ 120 and run it for a bit.

I hear you Block Head. Here is my thoughts, I may well be mistaken but a good T5 setup isn't cheap. With everything I've read I shouldn't get a TekLight or other cheap T5 fixture because they don't give enough PAR for what I want to do. So an ATI or Aquatinics would be the answer and I would need at least a 6 bulb and preferably an 8 bulb setup (for a 120) which would be at least $700-800 with bulbs. Then you need to add $120-$160 every year for bulbs.

A DIY LED for this will run me about $1,000 and if I do it right it will be upgradable in the future and the bulbs are rated to last 10-15 years. I was just looking that it would pay itself off quickly, plus I have my moonlights, dimming, infinitely adjustable zones, ect.

Why would the monthly upkeep be so much more for the LED over the T5? I would have thought it would be less or equal. I do not want to get into large monthly payments to RGE, which was one of the main reasons for the LEDs instead of MH combo type lighting.

 

[450reef]

the dd tanks are wicked nice i have a 150 and cully got the 250 which is awesome - i went with the starfire glass and love it most people think its a waste but i think its some of the best money i ever spent

 

[block head]

i babysit a 180. it's a large investment of time and cash. jumping from 4' to 6' is a big step up. going to 200+ custom tank is even bigger. for less than 1000 you could buy a nice used set up that could easily be sold at a later date. building a dream set up before you have owned a tank won't be easy.

 

[davidpesce]

A DIY LED for this will run me about $1,000 and if I do it right it will be upgradable in the future and the bulbs are rated to last 10-15 years. I was just looking that it would pay itself off quickly, plus I have my moonlights, dimming, infinitely adjustable zones, ect.

Just ordered my parts for the DIY LED for a 75 gal. I'll keep you posted on how it works out. I ended up just buying everything from rapidLED for the ease. I'll probably be grabbing some additional neutral whites just in case.

 

[SkiFletch]

Well, it's been a while for me, so I can't comment too much on the livestock. Most of the flow hardware hasn't changed much. If you want to put an elbow directly in front of the intake to the dart, you CAN, but you better go BIG on the diameter of the elbow/pipe. Larger centrifugal pumps like the Dart like unrestricted input flow, so small diameter pipes on the inlet side of the pump is a no-no, especially if right angles are used. I'd go with at least 1.5" plumbing on this section, maybe even 2" to be safe. And make SURE I mean SURE you use true union ball valves on this, or at least a ball valve inside the sump with a union at the pump if space is an issue. And union ball valves on the output side of the pump too. It's only a matter of time before the pump will need to be removed for servicing, and you'll kick yourself if you don't have unions and shutoffs. For that reason too, keep the pump in a removable location.

I'd also lean towards the 180, a much better balance for active fish and unique aquascaping. If you're good with acrylic, doing a beananimal style overflow would be the way to go. I use one myself. Drilling the holes isn't hard, you just have to go slow and use water to keep the bit cool. Making the internal box is the more difficult part . Once it's made, get some of that new silicone that's designed to adhere to acrylic AND glass for sticking it to the tank, and don't be shy with it.

Finally, about the lighting, do you have a resource for going into DIY drivers and controllers? I'm debating doing this myself for my 65 and would LOVE any direction you could offer. I'm not so interested in your individual/adjustable heatsink idea, but definitely interested in making my own setup.

 

[SkiFletch]

Just ordered my parts for the DIY LED for a 75 gal. I'll keep you posted on how it works out. I ended up just buying everything from rapidLED for the ease. I'll probably be grabbing some additional neutral whites just in case.

Wow, someone put this together? I remember thinking about buying all these products individually last year. So nice to see them all in a kit!

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I've been reading and learning as much as I can in preparation for my first tank. Any thoughts or advice? -BB

is this going to be your first marine aquarium?

 

[bluebayou]

Well, it's been a while for me, so I can't comment too much on the livestock. Most of the flow hardware hasn't changed much. If you want to put an elbow directly in front of the intake to the dart, you CAN, but you better go BIG on the diameter of the elbow/pipe. Larger centrifugal pumps like the Dart like unrestricted input flow, so small diameter pipes on the inlet side of the pump is a no-no, especially if right angles are used. I'd go with at least 1.5" plumbing on this section, maybe even 2" to be safe. And make SURE I mean SURE you use true union ball valves on this, or at least a ball valve inside the sump with a union at the pump if space is an issue. And union ball valves on the output side of the pump too. It's only a matter of time before the pump will need to be removed for servicing, and you'll kick yourself if you don't have unions and shutoffs. For that reason too, keep the pump in a removable location.

I'd also lean towards the 180, a much better balance for active fish and unique aquascaping. If you're good with acrylic, doing a beananimal style overflow would be the way to go. I use one myself. Drilling the holes isn't hard, you just have to go slow and use water to keep the bit cool. Making the internal box is the more difficult part . Once it's made, get some of that new silicone that's designed to adhere to acrylic AND glass for sticking it to the tank, and don't be shy with it.

Finally, about the lighting, do you have a resource for going into DIY drivers and controllers? I'm debating doing this myself for my 65 and would LOVE any direction you could offer. I'm not so interested in your individual/adjustable heatsink idea, but definitely interested in making my own setup.

Thanks Fletch for the info on the return pump, that's exactly the kind of advice I'm looking for. I was leery of the idea of an elbow directly in front of the intake as well but didn't know how else to pull off a 75 gal sump in a stand with the rough footprint of a 200 gal (48"x36").

For the DIY LED builds you have a few options:

You could just go to a place like Reef LED lights: http://www.reefledlights.com/how-to-diy-led/ and buy everything and put it together like the linked page.

Or if you want more control (and much more work) you can do what I want to do and build everything, the drivers, controller, everything.

DIY LED driver thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1759758

DIY LED controller thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1847680

Additional controller thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783536

General DIY rollup thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1718642

I know it's a lot of reading but if you can pull it off you can have exactly what you want for a fraction of the cost of buying a pre-made unit. Hope this helps!

 

[bluebayou]

i babysit a 180. it's a large investment of time and cash. jumping from 4' to 6' is a big step up. going to 200+ custom tank is even bigger. for less than 1000 you could buy a nice used set up that could easily be sold at a later date. building a dream set up before you have owned a tank won't be easy.

Thanks for the advice Block Head. I do understand the cost aspect but I don't understand why a larger tank would be more work?

Also the main reason why I don't why to buy a used tank is I know that silicone, especially older formulations have a definite lifespan. I am just worried about leaking and ruining the hardwood floors. I've been thinking about out a way to build an acrylic pan beneath the stand that extends out an 1/2" in every direction with 2" high walls, then put a bulkhead in the back and run a pipe down to the basement to the drain there. Hopefully that would drain any leak.

 

[bluebayou]

is this going to be your first marine aquarium?

Yes, this will be my first marine aquarium. But I've kept difficult amphibians and reptiles in the past with exacting schedules and parameters. I've done natural planted tanks with land and water sections with live plants, amphibians, ect. That said I know it is nothing like a reef. But let me know why a larger tank wouldn't be a good idea?

My thoughts are that the tank is relatively cheap, it's the skimmer, pumps, lighting, rock and all the rest that is so expensive. If I bought a 55 for example to start it would be a lot of money and I know that I wouldn't be happy with it for long. So my idea was to buy a large space to work with that will maximize my possibilities down the road if I want to go in a different direction.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

'bigger is better' is a common aquarium (size) recommendation but I don't believe it's a good one for all people- especially newbies to the game.
Costs can add up quickly and mistakes can get expensive!

one's posts and methods of research tell a lot about a person.
USUALLY I would recommend a 48" long 75, 90 or 120 gallon aquarium as a first reef aquarium (never a 55- it's too skinny) HOWEVER, in this particular case it sounds as though you're savvy enough to start with a larger aquarium. (Beware though!)

A 72" 180 is very large for a first reef aquarium IMO.

 

[bluebayou]

'bigger is better' is a common aquarium (size) recommendation but I don't believe it's a good one for all people- especially newbies to the game.
Costs can add up quickly and mistakes can get expensive!

one's posts and methods of research tell a lot about a person.
USUALLY I would recommend a 48" long 75, 90 or 120 gallon aquarium as a first reef aquarium (never a 55- it's too skinny) HOWEVER, in this particular case it sounds as though you're savvy enough to start with a larger aquarium. (Beware though!)

A 72" 180 is very large for a first reef aquarium IMO.

Thanks Gary I appreciate the vote of confidence. I've read enough to get an idea of just how many things can go wrong. I also appreciate the concern, from what I've seen many, possibly the majority only keep their setup for a few years and then something happens or they get tired of it. I notice how much you advise people to keep things simple, especially when it comes to maintenance. I want my setup to be as automated and redundant as possible. I'd also like to keep everything as modular as possible. For example I'm planning on building the islands in modular sections, each section composed of live rock cemented together, with each having pond spray foam "feet" to support them off the glass. I will be able to tear my rock down and rearrage it quickly and without damaging the bottom pane.

What a great hobby for a tinkerer, there are so many possibilities. But in the end I really just want to watch my reef. I've always been fascinated with small strange creatures especially sea life.

 

[bluebayou]

A few more questions:

This is maybe a silly question but how do you join an overflow box to the corners of the tank where there is already silicone? I would prefer not to cut into or damage the factory silicone in any way. Additionally new silicone does not join with cured silicone very well in my experience.

For those with overflow boxes: How do you run your return line? Up and over, through? I assume you don't want your return outlet much if any lower than your overflow pipes, you don't want it to siphon a ton of water in case of the return pump stopping.

 

[toddmh]

the way I deal with that issue is ..If both tanks pumps go out (power failure) I have them set that no way will the sump overflow from the back siphon..

I'm not seeing what you are asking with your first question,but it is 1:30 am and nothing is making much sense right about now lol..