I'm looking for a book that could be for all intensive purposes be used as an absolute reference for tangs of all kinds. I'm not looking for a general book but something specific towards tangs. I'm really getting into liking them and would like to put some myths and truths to the test to find out what actually is needed to care for these animals and understand them better.
Book of Tangs
- Thread starter hardcz
- Start date
mattsilvester
Team RC
I don't think there is one... unfortunately.....
I must admit, I think its a bit of a sell out that Scott Michaels hasn't done a "triggers & surgeonfish" book yet in his reef fishes series..... instead he's covering damselfishes or something daft.... I'm not going to buy it for spite..... it might hasten the release of the goog stuff
Meanwhile, wet web media has good info..... wouldn't put too much credit in the FAQ's..... there are people less experienced than I offering replies on the Wet Web Media team - but Bob Fenner himself is a legend..... a realist..... and experienced beyond belief..... chances are, if says it, its a fact not opinion.......
so in your quest for "all things tang", you could start there.....
HTH
Matt
I must admit, I think its a bit of a sell out that Scott Michaels hasn't done a "triggers & surgeonfish" book yet in his reef fishes series..... instead he's covering damselfishes or something daft.... I'm not going to buy it for spite..... it might hasten the release of the goog stuff
Meanwhile, wet web media has good info..... wouldn't put too much credit in the FAQ's..... there are people less experienced than I offering replies on the Wet Web Media team - but Bob Fenner himself is a legend..... a realist..... and experienced beyond belief..... chances are, if says it, its a fact not opinion.......
so in your quest for "all things tang", you could start there.....
HTH
Matt
philter4
New member
There are no aquarium books on tangs specifically, but there are several tang books that include some aquarium care and have a great natural history sections that can be applied to fish tanks. The 2 that come to mind are the kuiter guide to surgeons and there reletives and J Randalls surgeonfishes of hawaii and the world. I have both and use them when I travel, but both are lacking in the aquarium sections.
Good luck if you find an aquarium specific let me know, I collect books and would add something like that to my library.
Good luck if you find an aquarium specific let me know, I collect books and would add something like that to my library.
Amazon4
Premium Member
I have this book - lots of usefull information.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...n=PROD&Product_Code=BK-SR&Category_Code=Books
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...n=PROD&Product_Code=BK-SR&Category_Code=Books
yoboyjdizz
Active member
Your on reef central one of the greatest resources around. There are plenty of people with all types of tangs. I currently own 6 different tangs myself and can help you out if needed.
The problem I'm running into is finding factual information that has a strong backing that I can quote and feel confidant in the answers given.
Some of the questions are:
- what to feed them and why.
- what dimension tank is required for each tang and why
- what tangs are compatible with each other, and what tactics can be taken to keep tangs together peacefully.
- what temperatures and reef conditions are ideal for different species
I've seen even on this site a break down by species name for the recommended tank sizes based on factors that were not listed. So without ruffling feathers, wanting to get in black and white some marine biologist, scientists that did research, or whatever, to give factual evidence of why where and all these random questions.
rachenbrazil
Member
http://www.amazon.com/Surgeonfishes...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207340452&sr=8-2
This John Randall book is also excelent reference for surgeonfish as Kuiter books on marinedepot...
Both are top books on this subject
This John Randall book is also excelent reference for surgeonfish as Kuiter books on marinedepot...
Both are top books on this subject
mattsilvester
Team RC
I see where you are going with this, and while your efforts are laudable in trying to find a book that clearly states in black and white what is fact, I think your endeavours will be thwarted by one inescapable fact..... fish don't read books, and unfortunately they seem to refuse to be pigeon holed into any one catagory. The best you are going to get is generalisations......
Allow me to quote the man who is for me, my personal "guru" on "fish" - Bob Fenner:
"Bear in mind, however, that many articales and books in this field are authored and edited by those who have limited exposure to the real world of home-scale aquarium keeping. Many of them have large, complicated facilities that are beyond the budgets, or even the dreams, of most hobbyists. Some writers are sucesful collectors and intermediate dealers who don't know much about maintaining an end user or holding livestock for more than a week. Other writers can be hobbyists, divers, and retail workers who think that they have seen it all after having a brush with a few specimens.
Their opinions, as well as my own, should be taken with a bag of salt - not a grain. Before plunking down your hard earned cash, try to ivestigate through reading and talking with people who have years of first hand experience".
Now Bob was referring to Angelfishes in that paragraph, but the exact same applies to Tangs...... in spite of reading countless times that tangs are reef safe, I have read accounts of them picking at coral..... its rare, but it happens......
I none-the-less wish you the best in your quest for all things tang, just be careful who's opinion you take to be fact, because there is no author alive that has kept every conceivable combination of tangs in various tank sizes for appreciable lengths of time....... you will not find many "facts" I'm afraid, just generalisations based on experience, anecdotal evidence, and common sense
HTH
Matt
BangkokMatt
New member
I totally agree with this well written post. My experiences with particular species have been so different with individual fish. Yes, generalisations to behavior are always evident but personality / individual behavior can throw the 'rule book' out of the window.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12259277#post12259277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattsilvester
I see where you are going with this, and while your efforts are laudable in trying to find a book that clearly states in black and white what is fact, I think your endeavours will be thwarted by one inescapable fact..... fish don't read books, and unfortunately they seem to refuse to be pigeon holed into any one catagory. The best you are going to get is generalisations......
Allow me to quote the man who is for me, my personal "guru" on "fish" - Bob Fenner:
"Bear in mind, however, that many articales and books in this field are authored and edited by those who have limited exposure to the real world of home-scale aquarium keeping. Many of them have large, complicated facilities that are beyond the budgets, or even the dreams, of most hobbyists. Some writers are sucesful collectors and intermediate dealers who don't know much about maintaining an end user or holding livestock for more than a week. Other writers can be hobbyists, divers, and retail workers who think that they have seen it all after having a brush with a few specimens.
Their opinions, as well as my own, should be taken with a bag of salt - not a grain. Before plunking down your hard earned cash, try to ivestigate through reading and talking with people who have years of first hand experience".
Now Bob was referring to Angelfishes in that paragraph, but the exact same applies to Tangs...... in spite of reading countless times that tangs are reef safe, I have read accounts of them picking at coral..... its rare, but it happens......
I none-the-less wish you the best in your quest for all things tang, just be careful who's opinion you take to be fact, because there is no author alive that has kept every conceivable combination of tangs in various tank sizes for appreciable lengths of time....... you will not find many "facts" I'm afraid, just generalisations based on experience, anecdotal evidence, and common sense
HTH
Matt
Gain you own experience by listening to others, staying within limits and,of course, reading.
greenmonkey51
New member
I'd really look forward to Scott Michael's book. I have no clue when its coming out, but his angel and butterfly book has been great. For me I like a book that gives me the general info and I can make a decision from there on whether to research further.
thanks mattsilvester, it is disappointing to find the lack of raw data out there for what I'm looking for. Though every little tid bit found adds to the overall idea and knowledge of a possible better way to keep these fish. So that's a plus at least. And the "rule book" like everything else I figure should be used as a guide. Such that if one says reef temps should be 74-82F then you can get an idea that something around those temps should be good.
Cantonesefish
with active cooling
At least we know the requirements of snappers, jacks, and remoras in the home aquarium thanks to Scott W. Michael's books... :rolleye1:
Vili_Shark
New member
I always find the Kuiter books excellent , the Atlas is really good.
BangkokMatt
New member
Agree. The 'Atlas' is the best ID book IMO
redhdmedic
New member
I also am hopping on the "Matt train"...when I was first getting into the hobby, I tried looking for one great source book, but noticed that almost every book I looked at had a varied view or approach or answer to any question I had. I have found reefcentral to be my best resource as the opinions here have been of the most benefit...and generally right on the mark! While I have found Scott Michael's books the most beneficial when it comes to species research or ID, when it comes to care and expectations I have found the help here on reefcentral to be incomparable. just my .02
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
Agreed. I like the Michael books, but so much of that information is just cut and pasted from other species, even on the same page. It seems rather quickly compiled rather than through research. And his tank size recommendations are ridiculous. And every fish in the book should be fed 3-4 times daily. Love the pics, though.
As mattsilvester said, it would be impossible to find, or create a book with what you are looking for, because this hobby is not black and white- there are an infinite number of shades of grey. Simply search what you can, take the "average" and you'll find the standard acceptable.
As mattsilvester said, it would be impossible to find, or create a book with what you are looking for, because this hobby is not black and white- there are an infinite number of shades of grey. Simply search what you can, take the "average" and you'll find the standard acceptable.
mattsilvester
Team RC
.....just wanted to add a small point......
I think the Scott Michaels books are very good..... I feel he covers speceis very well, and gives some good general advice. Just that:
(1) No one opinion can fully "cover" a species.... hence I use his opinions, mixed with others, such as Fenner, to form my own..... another note to be made (note within a note)..... it would be easy to take all the "good" points from both such authors and form a positive opinion on a species.... same can be said of teh negative points...... It is crutial to be realistic and objective when trying to arrive at a "conclusion" of sorts.....
(2) I just think the "reef fishes" series is a sell out because it is a series of books that appeals to the more "fish" orientated hobbyist, rather than the true "reefer"..... yet three of the biggest "groups" of fish have thus far been ignored (Triggers / Wrasse / Tangs)...... you would think the most recent installment would include at least one of these groups...... but no, it is centred on "Damselfishes and Anemone Fishes" - it is such a blatent & crass marketing stratergy - throw the public a bone sort of attitude...... I find it distasteful. I know "Damselfishes and Anemone Fishes" are an important group of fish, but in fairness, how many hits a day do you think RC or Google get for them, compared to wrasses, tangs, triggers, etc........ its just a sell out, in my opinion..... hence my negative feelings toward the series...... which is otherwise very good, and I think the information there in is both useful and informative, and is to be recommended..... generally.....
Regards,
Matt
I think the Scott Michaels books are very good..... I feel he covers speceis very well, and gives some good general advice. Just that:
(1) No one opinion can fully "cover" a species.... hence I use his opinions, mixed with others, such as Fenner, to form my own..... another note to be made (note within a note
)..... it would be easy to take all the "good" points from both such authors and form a positive opinion on a species.... same can be said of teh negative points...... It is crutial to be realistic and objective when trying to arrive at a "conclusion" of sorts.....(2) I just think the "reef fishes" series is a sell out because it is a series of books that appeals to the more "fish" orientated hobbyist, rather than the true "reefer"..... yet three of the biggest "groups" of fish have thus far been ignored (Triggers / Wrasse / Tangs)...... you would think the most recent installment would include at least one of these groups...... but no, it is centred on "Damselfishes and Anemone Fishes" - it is such a blatent & crass marketing stratergy - throw the public a bone sort of attitude...... I find it distasteful. I know "Damselfishes and Anemone Fishes" are an important group of fish, but in fairness, how many hits a day do you think RC or Google get for them, compared to wrasses, tangs, triggers, etc........ its just a sell out, in my opinion..... hence my negative feelings toward the series...... which is otherwise very good, and I think the information there in is both useful and informative, and is to be recommended..... generally.....
Regards,
Matt
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12272589#post12272589 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattsilvester
.....just wanted to add a small point......
I think the Scott Michaels books are very good..... I feel he covers speceis very well, and gives some good general advice. Just that:
(1) No one opinion can fully "cover" a species.... hence I use his opinions, mixed with others, such as Fenner, to form my own..... another note to be made (note within a note
(2) I just think the "reef fishes" series is a sell out because it is a series of books that appeals to the more "fish" orientated hobbyist, rather than the true "reefer"..... yet three of the biggest "groups" of fish have thus far been ignored (Triggers / Wrasse / Tangs)...... you would think the most recent installment would include at least one of these groups...... but no, it is centred on "Damselfishes and Anemone Fishes" - it is such a blatent & crass marketing stratergy - throw the public a bone sort of attitude...... I find it distasteful. I know "Damselfishes and Anemone Fishes" are an important group of fish, but in fairness, how many hits a day do you think RC or Google get for them, compared to wrasses, tangs, triggers, etc........ its just a sell out, in my opinion..... hence my negative feelings toward the series...... which is otherwise very good, and I think the information there in is both useful and informative, and is to be recommended..... generally.....
Regards,
Matt
I think the schedule for release was determined years ago before the first volume came out. Im not sure of that, but I dont think its a conspiracy theory.
Besides, I can tell you what it will say for every species: minimum tank size 75 gallons, feed 3-4 times a day!
mattsilvester
Team RC
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12273248#post12273248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
I think the schedule for release was determined years ago before the first volume came out. Im not sure of that, but I dont think its a conspiracy theory.
Besides, I can tell you what it will say for every species: minimum tank size 75 gallons, feed 3-4 times a day!
LOL....... your probably right.... LOL
From memory - and I will check when I get home - the first book implied that there would be two further volumes (i.e 3 in total) - which I think was to over everything........ i.e. in the "future books in this series" page that is what it listed. But When volume two came out, the excellent Angelfish book, it seem that the series was to be broken out into 5 volumes........ extending the the species lists etc.
I suspect that upon realising how sucessful the first book was, it was decided early in the production of volume 2 that they would stretch it out a bit..... and make 5 series out of it...... which in itself is probably a good thing...... BUT had volume 3 detailed tangs for example, then I suspect alot of reefs would have no further interest in the series after that....... where as by holding out until volume 5 for the rest of the popular species, there will probably be alot of people buy vol. 4, just because they already have the other 3........
Its no "conspiracy theory", its just a good bit of marketing - which I suspect Michaels himself has little to do with...... whether this was the plan from the outset, or whether it was developed along the way, I still feel a "scammed" by the whole thing.... truth be told, I will probably buy volume 4, and 5..... and would have probably done so anyway..... I just feel that it would have been better if it included just one group of fish that folks into non-reef safe fish would be interested in......
