Brightwell Aquatics "Two Thumbs up!!!"
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
I have been using the A & B. Any thoughts on that? At first it seemed to work fine but I am now having a problem with calcium keeping up. I know you recommend the DIY, but I get nervous mixing anything myself...
:lol:
Thanks for reminding me.
No, I do not recommend the Brightwell two part. It is deficient in magnesium by their own claimed values. They do not seem to understand how to make an appropriate balanced two part, despite the fact that I've published how much magnesium one should have in it and why.
That said, I can't be sure any other commercial one is correct either, since I know of no others that report the amount of magnesium in them.
However, a low calcium problem is more likely to be caused by a low calcium salt mix or inadequate dosing than a problem with the two part being used.
:lol:
Thanks for reminding me.
No, I do not recommend the Brightwell two part. It is deficient in magnesium by their own claimed values. They do not seem to understand how to make an appropriate balanced two part, despite the fact that I've published how much magnesium one should have in it and why.
That said, I can't be sure any other commercial one is correct either, since I know of no others that report the amount of magnesium in them.
However, a low calcium problem is more likely to be caused by a low calcium salt mix or inadequate dosing than a problem with the two part being used.
From their description:
Guaranteed Analysis
Calcium (min) 1,774 mg/oz. (60,000 ppm)
Magnesium (min) 42 mg/oz. (1,500 ppm)
I think a two part should have magnesium that is about 20% if the calcium value, not the 2.5% he lists.
for the two reasons that I outline here:
An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php
from it:
Residual Ions from the Calcium and Alkalinity Parts
Adding 1 gallon of each of these additives will result in a residue of ions remaining after calcification. These are mostly sodium and chloride, and the amounts of those two added are equal in numbers (i.e., moles), but slightly different in weight-based concentrations such as ppm because they do not weigh the same.
After adding 594 grams of baking soda (1 gallon of Recipe #1), we will have added 163 grams of sodium. In natural seawater, magnesium is present at about 12.0% of the sodium concentration (by weight). In order to match the magnesium additions to the sodium additions to leave them in a natural ratio, we need to add 12% of 163 grams, or 19.5 grams, of magnesium for every gallon of the two-part additive that we add.
Additionally, we may want to account for magnesium that is actually incorporated into the coral skeletons. For this calculation, I have assumed that the amount of magnesium incorporated is about 6.5% of the calcium level (by weight), or about 2.5% of the skeleton by weight. In the course of adding this gallon of both parts of the two part supplement, we added 141 grams of calcium, so we need to add 0.065 x 141 = 9 grams of magnesium to account for this deposition.
The magnesium parts of the recipe are designed to add enough magnesium so that it is not depleted by either of the two means described above. Because the magnesium supplement (either version) is 47,000 mg/L in magnesium, we need to add (9 +19.5) grams/47 g/L = 610 ml of the magnesium solution for each gallon of the other parts of Recipe #1.
Guaranteed Analysis
Calcium (min) 1,774 mg/oz. (60,000 ppm)
Magnesium (min) 42 mg/oz. (1,500 ppm)
I think a two part should have magnesium that is about 20% if the calcium value, not the 2.5% he lists.
for the two reasons that I outline here:
An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php
from it:
Residual Ions from the Calcium and Alkalinity Parts
Adding 1 gallon of each of these additives will result in a residue of ions remaining after calcification. These are mostly sodium and chloride, and the amounts of those two added are equal in numbers (i.e., moles), but slightly different in weight-based concentrations such as ppm because they do not weigh the same.
After adding 594 grams of baking soda (1 gallon of Recipe #1), we will have added 163 grams of sodium. In natural seawater, magnesium is present at about 12.0% of the sodium concentration (by weight). In order to match the magnesium additions to the sodium additions to leave them in a natural ratio, we need to add 12% of 163 grams, or 19.5 grams, of magnesium for every gallon of the two-part additive that we add.
Additionally, we may want to account for magnesium that is actually incorporated into the coral skeletons. For this calculation, I have assumed that the amount of magnesium incorporated is about 6.5% of the calcium level (by weight), or about 2.5% of the skeleton by weight. In the course of adding this gallon of both parts of the two part supplement, we added 141 grams of calcium, so we need to add 0.065 x 141 = 9 grams of magnesium to account for this deposition.
The magnesium parts of the recipe are designed to add enough magnesium so that it is not depleted by either of the two means described above. Because the magnesium supplement (either version) is 47,000 mg/L in magnesium, we need to add (9 +19.5) grams/47 g/L = 610 ml of the magnesium solution for each gallon of the other parts of Recipe #1.
sedor
New member
But the Brightwell bottles are so fancy lookin' :lol: Sadly for that reason alone local stores will continue to successfully sell Brightwell products. I have been using mb7 for some time now and honestly, I do it, just because. I've never noticed much of a difference although it doesn't seem to hurt anything either.
you may add reducing particulate organic matter (detritus) in the tank as a goal if you want that for your system (it is not really a goal of mine).
Randy- What do you mean by the above? I have always been concerned with detritus accumulation - but are you saying it is inert? Or you don't have any in your system? If so - DO TELL HOW!!!
Thanks,
T
That was really written in the context of the other thread, where it was someone’s goal, but I don't have it as a goal in my system. There is plenty settled out here and there, especially at the bottom of my refugia, but I just don't care about it.
Why should I care? Because someone says it leads to elevated nutrients? But if the various mechanisms take care of nutrients, I don't care.
Why should I care? Because someone says it leads to elevated nutrients? But if the various mechanisms take care of nutrients, I don't care.
WOW ! I knew you did not like allot of the line but not as much as me and here you are worse than me on not liking it :lol: "Merry Christmas Boomer hope you like the rant
Hey, you left out that bucket of salt that has his salt to 0.001 ppm for all the major ions, which is an exact match to NSW at the same 0.001 ppm ions. Even God cannot do that but Chris can :rollface::rollface::rollface:
Hey, you left out that bucket of salt that has his salt to 0.001 ppm for all the major ions, which is an exact match to NSW at the same 0.001 ppm ions. Even God cannot do that but Chris can :rollface::rollface::rollface:
That's pretty funny. I guess he missed the day they talked about significant figures in his marine scientist class.
Can you list the mechanisms that you feel are working for you, or can you direct me to a thread ( or threads) that you feel best prioritize them by effectiveness?
Thanks Again!
This is directed to me, or someone else?
If me, effective at what?
Thanks Again!
This is directed to me, or someone else?
If me, effective at what?
Why should I care? Because someone says it leads to elevated nutrients? But if the various mechanisms take care of nutrients, I don't care.
Sorry Randy - I should have addressed you by name....
In the above comment you mention "various mechanisms"
I am just looking to improve on my knowledge, and to see if there are things I could take better advantage of to help maintain water quality better.
T
Sorry Randy - I should have addressed you by name....
In the above comment you mention "various mechanisms"
I am just looking to improve on my knowledge, and to see if there are things I could take better advantage of to help maintain water quality better.
T
OK, for nutrient export and other purposes, I use organic carbon dosing (vinegar and vodka), several brightly lit refugia with macroalgae, a skimmer, GAC, ozone, and lots of live rock in my sump/refugia (more than in my display tank). 
Oh here we go... I am tagging along with this one.
I am a long time hobbyist and I am currently working on my PhD in chemistry and it has definitely changed my perspective on fish keeping. I am glad to hear that I am not the only one dislikes the fad based companies that make outrageous and exaggerated claims about their products and mislead consumers.
EvMiBo
VictoriaConcordiaCrescit
Randy, have you made a thread for your tank setup? It would be interesting to see pictures of it.
Could you tell me/us what you think about the Brightwell product "Reef Snow"? I used it in my previous tank about once a week, I wasn't able to pull much hard evidence that it was helping corals grow faster or color up. I still have about half a container left (not sure if this stuff goes bad or not), but haven't used it at all on my new setup that I started in September. After reading through this I'm sure your opinion is similar to the other brightwell products. I also used MB7, but really only used it when starting up a system to help keep nitrates down, keep away bad algae and seed beneficial nutrients.
Also, can you elaborate a little more on the NEOmarine comment you had going with Boomer? The reason I ask is because a trustworthy friend of mine has a 75g display packed with SPS and does weekly water changes with the NEOmarine. His cal alk and mag levels are right at, or right near where they need to be. :hmm3: I'm at a lost because he isn't dosing anything to bring up cal alk and mag and nothing to keep it there either (kalk, etc). Does that back label sugarcoat the salt mixture?
Thanks for all the info you provide Randy, when I need/want to learn something new about the hobby your articles are usually there to help (currently Ozone). When the hell are you going to publish a book so we can read when we're away from our comps???
Could you tell me/us what you think about the Brightwell product "Reef Snow"? I used it in my previous tank about once a week, I wasn't able to pull much hard evidence that it was helping corals grow faster or color up. I still have about half a container left (not sure if this stuff goes bad or not), but haven't used it at all on my new setup that I started in September. After reading through this I'm sure your opinion is similar to the other brightwell products. I also used MB7, but really only used it when starting up a system to help keep nitrates down, keep away bad algae and seed beneficial nutrients.
Also, can you elaborate a little more on the NEOmarine comment you had going with Boomer? The reason I ask is because a trustworthy friend of mine has a 75g display packed with SPS and does weekly water changes with the NEOmarine. His cal alk and mag levels are right at, or right near where they need to be. :hmm3: I'm at a lost because he isn't dosing anything to bring up cal alk and mag and nothing to keep it there either (kalk, etc). Does that back label sugarcoat the salt mixture?
Thanks for all the info you provide Randy, when I need/want to learn something new about the hobby your articles are usually there to help (currently Ozone). When the hell are you going to publish a book so we can read when we're away from our comps???
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I think that many people like zeovit, and it is fine for them. It certainly cannot be argued that it doesn't give color to certain corals.
I don't care that much for some of the colors it seems to give, and I'm not sure I like the premise of driving zoox levels down so low, possibly to unnaturally low levels by starving them and/or poisoning them.
I'd also argue that it is an SPS coral centric system, and that's not my focus or interest in reef keeping. At the moment I do not have any SPS, and I don't have any plans to get any.
I also tend to not like products that do not say what they are. It is also pretty expensive.
I don't care that much for some of the colors it seems to give, and I'm not sure I like the premise of driving zoox levels down so low, possibly to unnaturally low levels by starving them and/or poisoning them.
I'd also argue that it is an SPS coral centric system, and that's not my focus or interest in reef keeping. At the moment I do not have any SPS, and I don't have any plans to get any.
I also tend to not like products that do not say what they are. It is also pretty expensive.
Also, can you elaborate a little more on the NEOmarine comment you had going with Boomer? The reason I ask is because a trustworthy friend of mine has a 75g display packed with SPS and does weekly water changes with the NEOmarine.
I have no problem with the salt (that I know of). The problem is the claim on the label Boomer posted that it has too much implied precision: magnesium at 1288.000 ppm to a scientist has a very different meaning than 1288 ppm.
Whether it meets any of those numbers (precision aside), I do not know, but Billy's testing would suggest it perhaps does not:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505
I have no problem with the salt (that I know of). The problem is the claim on the label Boomer posted that it has too much implied precision: magnesium at 1288.000 ppm to a scientist has a very different meaning than 1288 ppm.
Whether it meets any of those numbers (precision aside), I do not know, but Billy's testing would suggest it perhaps does not:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505
Randy, have you made a thread for your tank setup? It would be interesting to see pictures of it.
I don't want to get this thread off track, so I'll post some links, but let's continue the discussion elsewhere.
Here are some thread and pictures, although they are a bit old now. Unfortunately, the red haddoni never transition to my tank and died in 30 days (not unusual, unfortunately) and the purple H. crispa that I've had as a showpiece for years died a month ago.
Radical change contemplated: swap lit refugia for carbon dosing
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1557772
Randy's new 120 gallon Reef
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698596&highlight=cowfish
I don't want to get this thread off track, so I'll post some links, but let's continue the discussion elsewhere.
Here are some thread and pictures, although they are a bit old now. Unfortunately, the red haddoni never transition to my tank and died in 30 days (not unusual, unfortunately) and the purple H. crispa that I've had as a showpiece for years died a month ago.
Radical change contemplated: swap lit refugia for carbon dosing
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1557772
Randy's new 120 gallon Reef
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698596&highlight=cowfish
Could you tell me/us what you think about the Brightwell product "Reef Snow"? I used it in my previous tank about once a week, I wasn't able to pull much hard evidence that it was helping corals grow faster or color up.
I don't really have any useful opinion on it and similar products that other companies have sold. I do not use such products, but they may be useful for some organisms.
I don't really have any useful opinion on it and similar products that other companies have sold. I do not use such products, but they may be useful for some organisms.
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