Bubble King Setup, Tuning and trouble shooting thread. Post your questions here!

[slief]

Hi Scott,

Can you advise on the following,

139 gallon LPS system (Reefer XL525)
Skimmer Mini Bubble King 200 VS13 with RD3 Mini Speedy
Actual sump water level is 10.8" (27.5cm) and skimmer on a stand-plate to bring skimmer water level to 8" (22cm).
In order to raise the water level at the waterlevel limite in the skimmer body, I need to close the wedge pipe at 80-85%. it is normal to close that much in order to bring the waterlevel at the limite line ?
I've tried to run at full 50w but also at 30w but no real changes.
Skimmer is running since two months now and the tank population 12 fishes 6 shrimps. Before the 200 RD3 , I had the Mini180 on the 450L Reefer with a sump waterlevel of 24cm and on a stand-plate to bring skimmer water level also to 8" (22cm) but wedge pipe was only closed at half way only.

Any suggestions?

Cheers

You hardly have any load at all for that skimmer. There really isn't much waste in your tank.

My suggestions would be as follows. Lower the stand. Your wedge pipe is closed too much for my liking and you are having to do that to compensate for the skimmer being too far above the water. I would start at around 9" depth for the skimmer and see how that does. Your best pump speed should be between 28 and 32 watts. Like I said in the suggestion above, set the pump speed to get the best/most dense foam possible which in the case of the 200mm sized skimmers is between 28 and 32 watts.. The more dense the foam, the better a job it will do in removing dissolved organics. Keep in mind that the lower pump speed allows for better contact time which means more waste will be removed in a single pass and you will have better foam and better control over fine tuning of the skimmer. The RD3 allows for very fine adjustments for that so make an adjustment and give it time to settle down. Take notes if needed so you know what your adjustments did and find a setting that gives you the best foam.

Once you figure out the best pump speed setting for your load, Use your sump depth to get the level inside the skimmer (where the bubbles turn to foam) right at the base of then neck where the cup threads to the body. You want to do this with the wedge pipe wide open as that will be your driest skim set point. If your sump level can be lowered, I would remove the stand and drop the level to 9" with the wedge pipe wide open and see what that does. If the transition from bubbles to foam is too low, increase the sump depth slightly until you find the sweet spot. If it's too high, drop it some more or raise your skimmer slightly. Give it time for the skimmer to settle down after making adjustments. It can take several hours for the skimmer to settle down. Once you get that set, then you can use the wedge pipe to adjust from a dry skim to a wet skim without having to close it too much. A tiny adjustment of the wedge pipe will make a big difference in the foam level once you get the sump/skimmer depth set right and you will never need to close the wedge pipe all that much. If you don't have the ability to lower the sump level or lower the skimmer stand, then you will be stuck having to use the wedge pipe and close it more than 1/2 way. This isn't a huge issue as long as you don't experience surging in the skimmer body. This is where the water level in the body goes up and down and it's caused by the exit side of the skimmer being restricted too much. This causes water to siphon out of the skimmer instead of flow out nice and smooth. .

 

[kodo28]

Hello Scott,

I took some pictures of the actual setting of the wedge pipe and water level in the skimmer body.

Little question about the sump water level.
In the Operating and maintenance manual.pdf they tell water level should between 20 and 22 cm. I have it actually on a stand at 22 cm
Not sure how much it will give after conversion centimetres to inch ?
8 = 22 and 9 = 23 , Is that right ?

I have a sump deep of 27.5 cm water level so logically I have plenty of room to play with. Not sure but actually the skimmer is already set to 8"-9" but with wedge pipe most fully closed. And in order to get the water level inside the skimmer (where the bubbles turn to foam) right at the base of the neck where the cup threads to the body with wide open pipe I need to set the skimmer base fully down at the bottom of the sump :sad2:

 

[ReefClownMIA]

20cm = 7.85"
21cm = 8.25"
22cm = 8.65"
23cm = 9.05"

 

[kodo28]

20cm = 7.85"
21cm = 8.25"
22cm = 8.65"
23cm = 9.05"

Thanks Marco,

So I just set the skimmer pump to 32W and wedge pipe set to the middle position and at 8.65" with stand plate...there is no way that the water level to make it.
It only goes at middle of the skimmer body so not sure how I can get the water level at the top with fully open pipe and 9" water deep in sump :sad2: .

 

[slief]

Thanks Marco,

So I just set the skimmer pump to 32W and wedge pipe set to the middle position and at 8.65" with stand plate...there is no way that the water level to make it.
It only goes at middle of the skimmer body so not sure how I can get the water level at the top with fully open pipe and 9" water deep in sump :sad2: .

See how nice and thick that foam looks? You just need to get that up into the neck area. Keep in mind that those recommended sump depths are based on presumed heavier loads and your skimmer is way oversized for your current load. The more dissolved organics in the water, the higher the water level will be inside the skimmer at lower sump depths. Remove the skimmer stand completely and see what that does for your water level or you can close your wedge pipe some to get the level up higher. If you have to go past 50%, then you should be running the skimmer deeper. or you can increase the pump speed more but I prefer increased contact time and the thicker foam that you get with the lower speed. Also, you don't need to get the bubble/foam level to bottom of the screw adapter if you have the wedge wide open. A little below is fine as you can then make adjustments using the wedge pipe without having to close it so much like you do now. Also don't be so concerned about how deep you sump is. If it's 27cm to get the water level up high enough, then so be it. You aren't harming anything. If the skimmer overflows at that level, then raise it a little bit at a time until you find the sweet spot without having to close the wedge pipe so much.

 

[ReefClownMIA]

I've got a Reefer 450 - Wish I had the 525.
Why did you upgrade from the MBK180 to the MBK200 w/RD3 - that's a a bit oversized IMHO.

On the side of the body, you should have a sticker that shows roughly where the waterline should be, and not be exceeded. If you don't have a dedicated WaterLine sticker, use the Royal Exclusiv Bubble Sticker on the side of the body as your high mark.
That is roughly where you want the distinguishable line between water, and bubbles.

As for the depth - try to keep it at 9"/23cm and run it 1/2 closed.

 

[kodo28]

See how nice and thick that foam looks? You just need to get that up into the neck area. Keep in mind that those recommended sump depths are based on presumed heavier loads and your skimmer is way oversized for your current load. The more dissolved organics in the water, the higher the water level will be inside the skimmer at lower sump depths. Remove the skimmer stand completely and see what that does for your water level or you can close your wedge pipe some to get the level up higher. If you have to go past 50%, then you should be running the skimmer deeper. or you can increase the pump speed more but I prefer increased contact time and the thicker foam that you get with the lower speed. Also, you don't need to get the bubble/foam level to bottom of the screw adapter if you have the wedge wide open. A little below is fine as you can then make adjustments using the wedge pipe without having to close it so much like you do now. Also don't be so concerned about how deep you sump is. If it's 27cm to get the water level up high enough, then so be it. You aren't harming anything. If the skimmer overflows at that level, then raise it a little bit at a time until you find the sweet spot without having to close the wedge pipe so much.

I will then try to get the skimmer down until I get the water level on skimmer at the water level limite without touching the pipe (actually at 50%)...
I was thinking the same about the recommended values :beer:

 

[kodo28]

I've got a Reefer 450 - Wish I had the 525.
Why did you upgrade from the MBK180 to the MBK200 w/RD3 - that's a a bit oversized IMHO.

On the side of the body, you should have a sticker that shows roughly where the waterline should be, and not be exceeded. If you don't have a dedicated WaterLine sticker, use the Royal Exclusiv Bubble Sticker on the side of the body as your high mark.
That is roughly where you want the distinguishable line between water, and bubbles.

As for the depth - try to keep it at 9"/23cm and run it 1/2 closed.

Hi Marco,

My skimmer didn't came with any sticker like the one on the 180 or any waterlevel limite engraving on body like old models

I sent any email to Royal Germany about this and they just answer me that the water-limite sticker was only there for recommandation...

I can tell you that I was not so happy with that answer when you know the price paid for it :angryfire:

 

[slief]

Hi Marco,

My skimmer didn't came with any sticker like the one on the 180 or any waterlevel limite engraving on body like old models

I sent any email to Royal Germany about this and they just answer me that the water-limite sticker was only there for recommandation...

I can tell you that I was not so happy with that answer when you know the price paid for it :angryfire:

If you went by that recommendation, you would be going more crazy. I would say you should be glad about not having it on there because you would be more confused. Every tank is different because loads vary from one tank to the next as does salinity. People with fish only tanks tend to run lower salinity than people with reef tanks. Salinity can have a big impact on skimmer performance just like the amount of waste in the tank. The recommendations as far as sump levels and or water levels inside the skimmer are only starting points. Once you understand how to properly tune a skimmer, it really is easy. Especially with the RD3.

Step 1.. Forget what the manual tells you as far as the recommended levels. :thumbsup: It's only a starting point and since your load is very minimal, it's not going to apply to you. Then get the skimmer in the water and let it break in using the guidelines provided in this thread for pump speed starting points. In your case, 28-32 watts which you have already done. Next is to adjust pump to get the best/thickest foam which should be between 28 and 32 watts. Looks like you are pretty good there from what I saw in the pictures. Then adjust the water level in the skimmer both through the wedge pipe and sump level so that you start getting foam into the cup. As you are aware, try not to close the wedge pipe more than 50%. If you can use the sump level to get it dialed in pretty close with the wedge wide ope, that is always best as the wedge is only used for fine tuning. You don't want the foam overflowing into the cup. You want the foam to be making it's way up the neck and over the lip after about 24 hours of running. Keep in mind that it takes 7-10 days for a skimmer to break in so after that time, you can begin to fine tune the skimmer. From the sounds of your previous response to my comment, I think you are well on your way to getting that skimmer tuned. After that, your next step should be adding more fish so your skimmer doesn't starve! :beer:

 

[kodo28]

The skimmer has been running since 2 months now, I suppose the breaking periode is now over...
I changed the base plate on sump, so it is now only at 2 cm from the bottom. Pump is set at 32w and the pipe at the middle point 50% open.
Water level on skimmer body is very low withthose settings (see pictures)

Could this be due following issue on the pump nozzle?
I cannot insert the nozzle without pushing it down and then there is a small gap at the bottom between the pump and nozzle . Could it be that the pump is losing some kind of pressure there zffecting the water level in the body?

 

[slief]

The skimmer has been running since 2 months now, I suppose the breaking periode is now over...
I changed the base plate on sump, so it is now only at 2 cm from the bottom. Pump is set at 32w and the pipe at the middle point 50% open.
Water level on skimmer body is very low withthose settings (see pictures)

Could this be due following issue on the pump nozzle?
I cannot insert the nozzle without pushing it down and then there is a small gap at the bottom between the pump and nozzle . Could it be that the pump is losing some kind of pressure there zffecting the water level in the body?

Yea, that pump nozzle needs to go all the way into the pump and it's certainly not helping you at all the way it is. With the nozzle not inserted into the pump like it is, it's not taking enough water into the skimmer. Instead it's pulling water from inside the skimmer instead of pulling it from outside. That will impact the water level in the skimmer body. Fix that and the skimmer will perform different and put you back to square 1. Give it 24 hours once you fix that so it can settle back down.

 

[ReefClownMIA]

As Scott stated - the nozzle needs to be seated in the volute properly, otherwise the pump is not pulling in the proper amount of water from the sump, rather recirculating some from inside the skimmer... this is very likely why your waterlevels are low inside the body.

 

[slief]

You are going to need to remove the skimmer from the sump and at the very least, loosen the base of the skimmer to fix that. You do not want to force the nozzle into the pump as you could end up cracking the skimmer body.

 

[kodo28]

Hi Scott,

The nozzle is already all the way in...the previous pictures only shows that the nozzle is not initially squared with the pump volute. The pump is sitting right in place into the base. Issue is that the hole on the skimmer body doesn't match the pump head...
To allow it to be full inserted into the pump, I need to make some pressure on it downside into the pump. Problem is then when the nozzle is full inserted in the pump there is a small gap at the bottom between pump volute and the nozzle due that the nozzle is not initially fully squared.
I think that could be the issue why I'm not getting water level has it should in the skimmer body without opening way to much the pipe.

 

[slief]

Hi Scott,

The nozzle is already all the way in...the previous pictures only shows that the nozzle is not initially squared with the pump volute. The pump is sitting right in place into the base. Issue is that the hole on the skimmer body doesn't match the pump head...
To allow it to be full inserted into the pump, I need to make some pressure on it downside into the pump. Problem is then when the nozzle is full inserted in the pump there is a small gap at the bottom between pump volute and the nozzle due that the nozzle is not initially fully squared.
I think that could be the issue why I'm not getting water level has it should in the skimmer body without opening way to much the pipe.

That looks better now. I think if you place the pump into the body and then insert the nozzle before adding the bottom plate, things will line up better. That said, a little gap where the nozzle goes into the body won't cause a big issue. A gap between the nozzle and the block will. There should be a slight amount of pressure on the body and nozzle to help keep it firmly in place. As for the water level, like I said, the water level is somewhat impacted by the amount of organics in the body. The proteins stick to the bubbles and then the bubbles stick to each other as they rise up the body. The lower the amount of dissolved organics, the lower the line where bubbles transition to foam and the deeper the skimmer will need to be run. Salinity can also have a big impact on that. The lower the salinity, the lower the line and the deeper you need to run the skimmer. Some people run their fish only systems at 1.021 or lower while us reef guys run between 1.025 and 1.026. With the higher salinity, we can run our skimmers shallower and or not have to close the wedge pipe as much. If you don't want to mess with your water level, you can always increase the pump speed to compensate for that. I just prefer and recommend the lower speed as it increases the contact time and generally results in better foam. Especially in a lower load system.

 

[ReefClownMIA]

The nozzle will sit inside the Volute. See below.

https://vimeo.com/166380790

Watch the markings on the pipe...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kodo28]

Hello Marco,

Thanks a lot for the pictures and video,

On video I can see how easily you push the nozzle into the pump volute with a small pressure and all the time the nozzle is squared with the pump volute.
On my case in order to insert the nozzle into the pump, I need to push it forward and down with a lot of pressure, causing the front of the pump to raise a little from the base...
Then when I release my hands from the nozzle, this one goes up due initial pressure that was needed to insert it into the pump (all this process is done without tighten screws)
This is causing to have a small gap at the bottom of the junction nozzle/pump. Then when I tight the screws the gap is even more visible.
There was definitely an issue on the measurement process to drill that hole...:facepalm:

 

[ReefClownMIA]

Hello Marco,

Thanks a lot for the pictures and video,

On video I can see how easily you push the nozzle into the pump volute with a small pressure and all the time the nozzle is squared with the pump volute.
On my case in order to insert the nozzle into the pump, I need to push it forward and down with a lot of pressure, causing the front of the pump to raise a little from the base...
Then when I release my hands from the nozzle, this one goes up due initial pressure that was needed to insert it into the pump (all this process is done without tighten screws)
This is causing to have a small gap at the bottom of the junction nozzle/pump. Then when I tight the screws the gap is even more visible.
There was definitely an issue on the measurement process to drill that hole...:facepalm:

Pascal,
Looking at the pictures again, it actually looks like the pump sits too far down into the recessed bottom plate, rather than the hole being off.

I saw Torstens email - looks like they will have you ship the unit back in for eval and corrective action. Since you are in France? - this will go direct through Germany.
I would go ahead and get the unit ready to ship ... safest bet.

Talk to you soon.

 

[kodo28]

Hi Marco,

Yes, something related with the pump base-plate or the drill to high in the skimmer body.
I received the Pick-up from my dealer and skimmer will be shipped back to Germany in order to check what's going wrong with it.
Hope they will check it soon as possible, cause I am leaving in vacation, middle of the next month for 3 weeks :uhoh3:

Just by curiosity are you able to take following measurement

 

[biecacka]

Dropped mine into 10.5 inches to try to get better performance. I have the valve closed about 80% and running the pump @38. I am just looking for more consistency in production from skimmer. I won't get anything for days then get a cup or so.

Corey