Bubble King Skimmer Club

[slief]

That what I thought Slief. I was getting a bit apprehensive in getting a RE skimmer after reading all the trouble people were having keeping them consistent.
But I think RE is the only skimmer on the market that you shouldnt oversize? It seems most people having problems dont have enough waste to skim off and have an oversized skimmer?

Love all the help. Cant wait to get my tank and get to reefing!:bounce3:

I wouldn't say it's the only skimmer you shouldn't oversize. In fact, companies like Coralvue/Reef Octopus and others don't recommend oversizing their skimmers. It's one of the main reasons why so many people start threads on the forum seeking help because they can't get their skimmer to produce or work properly. While you really can't overskim a tank which leads people to think they should get as big a skimmer as possible, that common misconception leads to the fact that getting too large of skimmer isn't always a good thing. This holds truth to pretty much any skimmer out there. You need enough dissolved organics (DOC's) to make any skimmer work properly and the larger the skimmer, the more DOC's needed.

That said, the BK's are among the most efficient skimmers in terms of their ability to outperform similar size and similar rated skimmers. This is due in part to the skimmer body and bubble plate design and in large part due to the Red Dragon pumps which have always been coveted as about the best skimmer pumps on the market. Royal Exclusiv puts a lot of R&D into their skimmer design and pumps. Klaus is kind of a mad scientist and works 6 days a week designing & testing this stuff. He pretty much never stops. While Royal Exclusiv designs both their own pumps and their skimmer bodies and does so to work in conjunction with each other, I can't think of a single other skimmer company that not only designs the skimmer but also their own pumps. Most companies put minimal effort into the skimmer body design and use somebody elses cheap pump. Some might design their own volute and impeller but that is as far as they go. On the flip side, most of the cheaper Chinese skimmers are copies of somebody elses design and include a cheap pump meaning they don't really put any R&D let alone serious testing into the design. This is what seperates Royal Exclusiv from pretty much every other skimmer manufacturer out there and it's also a key reason why the Bubble Kings perform as well as they do. Then of course there is the build and material quality which speaks for itself.

 

[ksed]

Scott,

Do you think we will see these types of grid wheels on future skimmers. Here is a picture that Klaus posted , post 695 it is the ones on the far right.
http://www.meerwasserforum.info/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=15261&pageNo=35

 

[slief]

Scott,

Do you think we will see these types of grid wheels on future skimmers. Here is a picture that Klaus posted , post 695 it is the ones on the far right.
http://www.meerwasserforum.info/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=15261&pageNo=35

Good find!!! I've never seen those shots. I knew he was working on pressure impellers for the RD flow pumps but I've never seen that grid impeller before so I couldn't tell you. It does however bolster my statement about Klaus being more akin to a mad scientist. Give the man a 3D printer and a CNC machine and he will go to town and judging by all the crazy impellers he is testing, it's clear he's doing his R&D and looking to the future. If that grid impeller proves to improve skimmer performance and warrants the change, you can bet it will appear in skimmers down the road but at this stage, one can only speculate.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Good find!!! I've never seen those shots. I knew he was working on pressure impellers for the RD flow pumps but I've never seen that grid impeller before so I couldn't tell you. It does however bolster my statement about Klaus being more akin to a mad scientist. Give the man a 3D printer and a CNC machine and he will go to town and judging by all the crazy impellers he is testing, it's clear he's doing his R&D and looking to the future. If that grid impeller proves to improve skimmer performance and warrants the change, you can bet it will appear in skimmers down the road but at this stage, one can only speculate.

Hey I had a quick question for you. I have a double done 250 with a speedy pump. When I got the skimmer, I had a stand built for it. In order for it to foam correctly, I have to have the wedge pipe almost 90% closed. I read a post from you earlier that said you liked to have the skimmer set where the wedge pipe is mostly open. In order for me to do that, would I need to lower my skimmer or raise my skimmer?

 

[slief]

Hey I had a quick question for you. I have a double done 250 with a speedy pump. When I got the skimmer, I had a stand built for it. In order for it to foam correctly, I have to have the wedge pipe almost 90% closed. I read a post from you earlier that said you liked to have the skimmer set where the wedge pipe is mostly open. In order for me to do that, would I need to lower my skimmer or raise my skimmer?

You are correct. I like to set protein skimmers up with the wedge pipe wide open so there isn't a restriction on the effluent line. I fidn the sweet spot as far as depth goes with the wedge wide open and then if I need to make slight adjustment to the skimmer, it can be done by closing the wedge ever so slightly. When the sump level is dialed in, it only takes a fraction of a turn of the wedge to make a decent difference. This typically results in better stability inside the skimmer. This is especially important with the smaller skimmers. In your case, you would need to either lower the skimmer or raise the sump level to compensate for the wedge pipe being closed so much.

I have my ATO float switches setup on magnet scrubbers which allow me to easily raise or lower the level in my sump for fine tuning of the skimmer. In your case, you could start by either removing the skimmer stand or modifying it. 1/4-1/2" of increased depth will probably do the trick.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

You are correct. I like to set protein skimmers up with the wedge pipe wide open so there isn't a restriction on the effluent line. I fidn the sweet spot as far as depth goes with the wedge wide open and then if I need to make slight adjustment to the skimmer, it can be done by closing the wedge ever so slightly. When the sump level is dialed in, it only takes a fraction of a turn of the wedge to make a decent difference. This typically results in better stability inside the skimmer. This is especially important with the smaller skimmers. In your case, you would need to either lower the skimmer or raise the sump level to compensate for the wedge pipe being closed so much.



I have my ATO float switches setup on magnet scrubbers which allow me to easily raise or lower the level in my sump for fine tuning of the skimmer. In your case, you could start by either removing the skimmer stand or modifying it. 1/4-1/2" of increased depth will probably do the trick.

Ok cool. I will just chop the legs down a bit. Maybe start with 1/2" at a time.

Thanks for the help!!!

 

[slief]

Ok cool. I will just chop the legs down a bit. Maybe start with 1/2" at a time.

Thanks for the help!!!

Glad to help!

 

[ksed]

is there anyway of finding out if he thinks this is a good idea. Or are there disadvantages to that grid impeller.

Good find!!! I've never seen those shots. I knew he was working on pressure impellers for the RD flow pumps but I've never seen that grid impeller before so I couldn't tell you. It does however bolster my statement about Klaus being more akin to a mad scientist. Give the man a 3D printer and a CNC machine and he will go to town and judging by all the crazy impellers he is testing, it's clear he's doing his R&D and looking to the future. If that grid impeller proves to improve skimmer performance and warrants the change, you can bet it will appear in skimmers down the road but at this stage, one can only speculate.

 

[slief]

is there anyway of finding out if he thinks this is a good idea. Or are there disadvantages to that grid impeller.

I will ask. My guess is that it was just one of the many experiments and didn't work as efficiently as the current impeller design or is slated for the next generation smaller skimmer. It it was the cat's meow, I think we would have heard more about it given that post is several months old. If I find anything out, I will let you know.

 

[ksed]

Thanks

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Bubble King Skimmer Club

You are correct. I like to set protein skimmers up with the wedge pipe wide open so there isn't a restriction on the effluent line. I fidn the sweet spot as far as depth goes with the wedge wide open and then if I need to make slight adjustment to the skimmer, it can be done by closing the wedge ever so slightly. When the sump level is dialed in, it only takes a fraction of a turn of the wedge to make a decent difference. This typically results in better stability inside the skimmer. This is especially important with the smaller skimmers. In your case, you would need to either lower the skimmer or raise the sump level to compensate for the wedge pipe being closed so much.



I have my ATO float switches setup on magnet scrubbers which allow me to easily raise or lower the level in my sump for fine tuning of the skimmer. In your case, you could start by either removing the skimmer stand or modifying it. 1/4-1/2" of increased depth will probably do the trick.

Well I cut my skimmer stand down 1.25", and I was only able to open my wedge pipe about 5% more.. IF that. Wonder why 1.25" made almost no difference.

Skimmer is now in 11" of water

Ideas?

 

[slief]

Well I cut my skimmer stand down 1.25", and I was only able to open my wedge pipe about 5% more.. IF that. Wonder why 1.25" made almost no difference.

Skimmer is now in 11" of water

Ideas?

11" of water? Something isn't right. The sweet spot is around 8". Wat do you have the RD3 set to? Normally around 37 watts seems to be a good starting point for that sized skimmer. When was the last time you took the pump apart and cleaned it? What size tank and how many fish?

 

[SchnitzelReef]

11" of water? Something isn't right. The sweet spot is around 8". Wat do you have the RD3 set to? Normally around 37 watts seems to be a good starting point for that sized skimmer. When was the last time you took the pump apart and cleaned it? What size tank and how many fish?

It was in about 9.5" of water before I cut it, and yes it's at 36/37w.

Tank is 250g and there is around 15-20 fish.

It took me awhile to figure out the sweet spot, but this is where it performed best.

It's a double cone in case you missed that.

 

[slief]

It was in about 9.5" of water before I cut it, and yes it's at 36/37w.

Tank is 250g and there is around 15-20 fish.

It took me awhile to figure out the sweet spot, but this is where it performed best.

It's a double cone in case you missed that.

Double Cone 250. Your tank is on the small/minium side for that skimmer. Especially given that you have what I would consider to be a really light load for your display size. That kind of explains why you have been running it so deep. Are you running around 1.025-1.026 salinity?

Given your current load, you pobably do have much of a choice. You could increase the flow into the pump a bit but 37ish watts seems to produce the best foam in that skimmer. Incresing the power a bit might help. You may not have a choice but to run it deep or increase your load.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Double Cone 250. You do have a pretty light load though and your tank is on the small side for that skimmer. That kind of explains why you are running it so deep. Are you running around 1.025-1.026 salinity?



Given your current load, you pobably do have much of a chice. You increase the flow into the pump a bit but 37ish watts seems to produce the best foam in that skimmer. As such, you may not have a choice but to run it deep.

Yea it's not working very hard in my tank, I should have gone with a 200.

 

[slief]

is there anyway of finding out if he thinks this is a good idea. Or are there disadvantages to that grid impeller.

As it turns out, that is a prototype of a high airflow/SCFH impeller. It's not designed for the smaller pumps as it's a fairly large impeller which is hard to judge from the pictures. It could be something that is included in a future skimmer pump designed for larger skimmers but has no practical use in the current skimmer pumps which are already very well balanced and produced more than enough airflow.

 

[jshepherd]

Quick question while this sm200 breaks in.

Should the ozone port be left open? Mine did not come with any hose or block off plug.

Can the 32mm silicone tube that connects the pump to the body be shortened to save some space? I could always get a replacement and try both ways unless someone knows for sure.

 

[ksed]

Thanks,

I just would have thought it would give the ATI powercone a run for its air numbers.

As it turns out, that is a prototype of a high airflow/SCFH impeller. It's not designed for the smaller pumps as it's a fairly large impeller which is hard to judge from the pictures. It could be something that is included in a future skimmer pump designed for larger skimmers but has no practical use in the current skimmer pumps which are already very well balanced and produced more than enough airflow.

 

[slief]

Quick question while this sm200 breaks in.

Should the ozone port be left open? Mine did not come with any hose or block off plug.

Can the 32mm silicone tube that connects the pump to the body be shortened to save some space? I could always get a replacement and try both ways unless someone knows for sure.

The ozone port should be blocked off. There is typically a small rubber cap that is included with the skimmer. You can go to pep boys and get vacuum line cap and place it over the nipple that is next to the stand pipe. Those vacuum line caps come in a small pack with a bunch of different sizes.

As for shortening the 32mm tube, you could but you might cause some turbulence. If you have the space, I would leave it as is.

Thanks,

I just would have thought it would give the ATI powercone a run for its air numbers.

I'm not familiar with the airflow rate/SCFH of the power cone but more air isn't necasarily a good thing. It's all about balance between skimmer size, water flow and air volume. Adding more air often cause the bubbles to burst prematurely instead of creating foam and it can also cause turbulence in the skimmer body. More air can also cause the bubbles to rise too quickly which decrease contact time and doesn't promote the bonding of proteins to the bubbles as efficiently.

Again, it's about balance and if the BK's needed more air, it would have been designed into the product. The Red Dragon skimmer pumps have long been coveted as arguably the best skimmer pumps on the market. This isn't just because of their reliability either. It's due in large part because of the quality of foam that they generate.

Looking back at the Askoll pumps with the adjustable volute, you could pump a lot of air into the skimmer by opening the volute as far as you wanted but there is a point where too much air sacrifices performance. The RD3 skimmer pumps on the other hand offer the perfect balance between water flow and air injection without having the mess with the volute. Best of all is that you can increase the flow of both with the push of a button until your hearts content and I'd bet at peak power, the RD3's would run circles around the power cone both in peformance and air draw. At the end of the day though, I don't know anybody that would run the RD3 skimmer pump at full power or anywhere near it on most of skimmers simply because you reach a point of diminishing returns where the skimmers foam making ability drops off.

In my mind, SCFH is more about bragging rights than it is about performance when it comes to protein skimmers. High SCFH doesn't equal optimal skimmer performance. Optimal skimmer performance is acheived by a great skimmer body design coupled with a great pump that offers the best balance between water flow and SCFH and does so without creating a excessive turbulence. This applies to all skimmer designs from recirculating ones to Beckett skimmers etc. It's all about balance and just because you have overly high SCFH doesn't mean your skimmer will perform worth a damn.

On that note, you have me contemplating digging for my Dwyer meter just so I can pull some SCFH numbers off my RD3. I'd bet you would be very surprised what kind of numbers that pump could pull down. I'm heading to Houston tomorrow for a few days but when I go out into my shed later today, I will look in my drawers and see if I can find it and if I can, I might just connect it to my skimmer for kicks and giggles.

 

[ksed]

I agree with balance. The powercone provides 3000l/a in a 250 body.I assume they would sacrifice water flow in that volume.