Bubble King Skimmer Club

[slief]

Thanks Slief,

the recommendation of running sump level higher is to have more water to air mixture if needed?

is the RD3 pump in the SM 300 exactly the same one used for the SM 250?
I run my SM 250 at 38W, not sure if increasing flow would help skim more in that one?

Thanks again

The sump level adjustment has to do with the internal water level in the skimmer and not having to close the wedge pipe to much that it makes adjusting the skimmer too sensitive. If the level in the sump is too low relative to the load, the wedge pipe will have to be closed more than 50% which can make fine tuning via the wedge tough.

The pump speed has to do with contact time and sufficient flow for the size of the body. The 300 comes with a 60w pump. If your SM250 has the white pump cover/volute, then they are the same pump. And increasing flow doesn’t result in skimming more. Increasing flow results in less contact time depending on the size of the skimmer which can result in less efficient skimming. Again, as I said above, use the pump speed to get the most dense foam. The range is a guideline but how the skimmer reacts to increased or decreased pump speed has much to do with the amount of dissolved organics. The greater the dissolved organics, the less pump speed you need to maintain a good solid foam head. You are using the pump speed to tune the foam density and the wedge pipe to tune from wet to dry skimming.

Best advice I can give you is to experiment with the speed and see how the foam looks. I gave you some guidelines. You want a thick frothy foam that doesn’t have bubbles bursting at the surface. This of course is in an ideal world where the skimmer isn’t oversized for the load. If your skimmer is oversized for your load, tuning the skimmer and getting that thick dense foam will be more difficult since there won’t be enough dissolved organics in the water to keep the neck filled with dense foam. Thus you’d have to run it wetter by using the wedge pipe and sump level to raise the line where bubbles turn to foam (break line) up higher in the body or even up into the neck. Remember, it’s the dissolved organics/proteins that allow the bubbles to bind together into the chains that form foam. In the absence of enough DOC’s, you get bubbles that rise quickly and burst at the surface. If there is plenty of dissolved organics, then you make thick foam and can run the break line lower below the point where the cup attaches to the body. This is also why I am so adamant about not oversizing BK’s. They are very conservatively rated and the SM’s in particular require a heavy load relative to their tank size rating. They are big skimmers with large volume necks that require plenty of DOC’s to keep the necks consistently filled with foam in order to maintain consistent skimmate production. Thus, erring on the side of caution when it comes to sizing is always best. Without knowing your load or the next person reading this thread, I figured I’d point that out.

 

[sensei]

Thanks for your thorough explanation, it helps a lot in understanding the skimmer!

I also thought that the height of the water in sump also impacts the head pressure over the pump, so a higher level of water would cause the pump to pull and inject less air to the skimmer??

but I understand that this would not matter and what we are trying is to have a higher level of water in the body of the skimmer to avoid closing the wedge pipe to much, correct?

would it be to much if I have a level of 11 inches in sump?
11" favors me because I need a additional sump to put the 2nd skimmer and I want the new sump to overflow by gravity to my main sump and with this measures everything fits under my stand.

please let me know what you think

 

[slief]

Thanks for your thorough explanation, it helps a lot in understanding the skimmer!

I also thought that the height of the water in sump also impacts the head pressure over the pump, so a higher level of water would cause the pump to pull and inject less air to the skimmer??

but I understand that this would not matter and what we are trying is to have a higher level of water in the body of the skimmer to avoid closing the wedge pipe to much, correct?

would it be to much if I have a level of 11 inches in sump?
11" favors me because I need a additional sump to put the 2nd skimmer and I want the new sump to overflow by gravity to my main sump and with this measures everything fits under my stand.

please let me know what you think

At 11” you’d likely have to run the pump speed at a lower wattage otherwise, it might overflow. That said, I am sure it would work OK but you would be limiting your tuning ability since you would have to run the pump speed lower to deal with the deeper sump. And the lower pump speed might work great compared to a higher one but you would never know since you wont be able to test it at higher speeds to have anything to compare to. And I have no idea what speed an 11” deep sump would necessitate just in case you were going to ask that.

The additional sump depth doesn’t really impact the head pressure on the pump. It’s the breakline level inside the skimmer that would impact head pressure on the pump but that isn’t even a concern as it really doesn’t impact the pumps since you tuning the foam density via the pump speed anyway.

In all honesty, I would ditch the 2nd skimmer. It’s not a good idea and it IS going to impact the performance and consistency of the 300 & the 250 resulting in inconsistent performance. I run an SM250 on a 700 gallon system (500 gallon main display) with over 70 fish in it. Several of which are around 10”+ fish including a very large vlamingi and a very large unicorn tank. My SM250 could handle a LOT more load. In fact, I wouldn’t even run a SM300 on my system because it likely wouldn’t be consistent with my load and would be somewhat difficult to tune given the SM300 needs a substantial amount of DOC’s to keep it well fed and consistent. It’s more suited for a 700-1000 gallon display with a truly heavy load than it is a 500 gallon display with a reasonably heavy load. And 2 skimmers would never run consistently on my system with one being my SM250 nor do I think it will on yours.

The issue is that the lack of skimming consistency results in elevated dissolved organics since the skimmers need those DOC’s to build a good foam head to fill the neck. If you have too much skimmer, those DOC’s will be removed quickly and the skimmers will idle along while the DOC’s build back up in the system until there is enough DOC’s to fill the neck with foam again at which point the skimmer (s) will skim well for again for a day or two and then stop producing. And then the cycle repeats itself. It will make it nearly impossible to tune either of your skimmers let alone maintain consistently low DOC’s. You are far better off with one properly sized skimmer that consistently works hard than having too much skimmer that hardly has to work and is inconsistent as a result. It WILL result in inconsistently low DOC’s instead of consistently low DOC’s. And due to these skimmers being truly conservatively rated, you can easily end up with too much skimmer resulting in perpetual tuning issues and inconsistent performance. Trust me, I’ve been down this path before with other customers. I’ve had oversized skimmers on my system before and fought them tooth and nail and dealt with inconsistent performance and overflows as a result of having to run them too wet to keep the consistent. 30+ years in this hobby and several years in the industry has taught me a lot. One properly sized skimmer will serve you and your system far better and result in lower overall DOC’s since you will never remove more than 30% of the DOC’s whether you run 1 properly sized high performance skimmer like the BK or 10 of them. In fact, the single skimmer that is well tuned will maintain better water quality than 2 or even 10 skimmers for the reasons I mentioned above. This is coming from decades of experience. I promise you, less is more in your case!

 

[sensei]

Thanks Slief,

I want to experiment with the oversized skimming power of Berlin method. It sounds like a great concept and people have had success with oversized skimmers. I refuse to believe that you can not do it with BK skimmers.

I feed 3 sheets of nori daily in addition to frozen food and my big tangs pull the nori sheet so hard that massive amounts of nori flakes get into water column, some get eaten by fish but most do not. I know it is a mayor contaminant. I need extra skimmimg power to help me pull as much as possible before they break down.

I will let you know how it goes once I have them running.

Thanks a lot

 

[sensei]

Slief,

I have an additional question.
when you close the wedge pipe to much, would you be forcing the pump of the skimmer?

I have been working with my SM250 with the wedge pipe a closed more than 50% but skimmer works very well and it is very consistent, the sump level is 20 cms as recommended by manufacturer, but with your explanation I am wondering if it would be better to higher the sump level a bit and open more the wedge pipe??

or I better keep it as it is since it is working fine?

please let me know what you think

thanks

 

[slief]

Slief,

I have an additional question.
when you close the wedge pipe to much, would you be forcing the pump of the skimmer?

I have been working with my SM250 with the wedge pipe a closed more than 50% but skimmer works very well and it is very consistent, the sump level is 20 cms as recommended by manufacturer, but with your explanation I am wondering if it would be better to higher the sump level a bit and open more the wedge pipe??

or I better keep it as it is since it is working fine?

please let me know what you think

thanks

Closing the wedge pipe too much can result in surging inside the body due to siphoning out the drain. You'd notice the break line moving up and down. How much is too much is dependent on pump speed and other factors. If the foam head is stable, then you are fine. It has no impact on the pump. Just impacts how water exits the skimmer and to a minor extent you ability to tune the skimmer. If you raise the sump level a bit, it would make the skimmer less sensitive to wedge pipe adjustments which can make it easier to tune since it won't be so sensitive. The ideal sump depth is really more a matter of lead. I heavier load typically requires a lower sump depth than a lighter load. If it were me, I'd suggest raising your sump level a couple CM's. It will make fine tuning via the wedge pipe a bit easier. And you will likely need to raise it even more if you add that second skimmer to maintain any semblance of consistency.

 

[sensei]

Thanks a lot Slief

 

[sensei]

Hello Slief,

can you confirm if the pump of the SM300 has only 3 screws?
the skimmer I ordered only came with only 3 and the white block of the pump has no hole for the 4th screw?? it doe snot seem right with only 3 srews to tighten the motor block

the SM 250 I have has 4 screws, this is why I ask.

please see the photos of the SM 300




waiting for your reply

 

[slief]

Hello Slief,

can you confirm if the pump of the SM300 has only 3 screws?
the skimmer I ordered only came with only 3 and the white block of the pump has no hole for the 4th screw?? it doe snot seem right with only 3 srews to tighten the motor block

the SM 250 I have has 4 screws, this is why I ask.

please see the photos of the SM 300

View attachment 404353
View attachment 404354

waiting for your reply

Yep. That is the latest volute for the 60w. It seals just fine. Only 3 screws are used on that model and it’s intentionally designed that way. There isn’t enough depth for threads in the CNC’d PVC volute for a screw in that corner due to the red pvc output nozzle. The 60w volute has been that way since the release of the 60w skimmer pump with the white CNC machined volute.

 

[sensei]

Thank you Slief,

the new SM300 did NOT come with the 90 degree elbow that connects to the red hose for ozone in the fitting that is near the wedge pipe??

SM 250 has this elbow that I am talking about.

Thanks

 

[slief]

Thank you Slief,

the new SM300 did NOT come with the 90 degree elbow that connects to the red hose for ozone in the fitting that is near the wedge pipe??

SM 250 has this elbow that I am talking about.

Thanks

The ozone connection on the 300 goes straight from the ozone nozzle on the pump to the tube connection on the wedge pipe support with no elbow needed. See attached photos below.

 

[sensei]

Slief,

The tip you gave me of raising the level of the sump for the SM250 is working great. The level of the bubbles was stable before, but now that the sump level is higher I opened the wedge pipe a little more and I see much more particles in the skimate. Thanks a lot.

In addition I have the new SM 300 in sump and have both skimmers working in the system now. the SM 300 is breaking in.
I saw several videos in of people working with SM skimmers at a sump level of 28cm so my SM300 is working at that level and seems to be doing fine. I have the pump set up at 50W, the only thing I noticed is that the bubbles in the SM300 are bigger near the top of the collection cup and the bubbles in the SM250 are smaller. Does the size of the bubbles have anything to do with pump speed?

best regards

best regards

 

[slief]

Slief,

The tip you gave me of raising the level of the sump for the SM250 is working great. The level of the bubbles was stable before, but now that the sump level is higher I opened the wedge pipe a little more and I see much more particles in the skimate. Thanks a lot.

In addition I have the new SM 300 in sump and have both skimmers working in the system now. the SM 300 is breaking in.
I saw several videos in of people working with SM skimmers at a sump level of 28cm so my SM300 is working at that level and seems to be doing fine. I have the pump set up at 50W, the only thing I noticed is that the bubbles in the SM300 are bigger near the top of the collection cup and the bubbles in the SM250 are smaller. Does the size of the bubbles have anything to do with pump speed?

best regards

best regards

Drop the pump speed on the 300 to 46 or so watts. Maybe a bit lower. 50w is too high in my opinion. That will help the bubble size. You want the bubbles smaller. The fact that the skimmer is just breaking in will also impact the bubble size as will the load relative to the skimmer size which with the equivalent of a 550mm skimmer on your size tank will likely be an issue anyways once the skimmers drop the load.

 

[sensei]

Slief,

here is an update:

I have been working with both skimmers SM 250 and SM 300 in my tank for 2 months now and they are working great. They are skimming more than double the liquid I would export with only 1 skimmer. Skimmers have been working consistently with no issues.

questions:
the wedge pipe of my SM250 is closed more than 50%. it is working fine and skimming well, but I want to know what happens if I higher the level of the water in the skimmer compartment so that I can open more the wedge pipe?

when you open the wedge pipe you allow more flow in the reaction chamber, which means more turnover of water in the chamber correct? is this beneficial to the skimming process or not?

I am thinking that the more turn over in the reaction chamber the more particles the skimmer could trap??

I am now working the SM 250 at a water level of 22cm, I am thinking of highering the level to 25 cms so that I can open the wedge pipe more.

would this be a good idea to try or should I just leave everything as it is now?
please explain me why in you answer.

thanks

 

[slief]

Slief,

here is an update:

I have been working with both skimmers SM 250 and SM 300 in my tank for 2 months now and they are working great. They are skimming more than double the liquid I would export with only 1 skimmer. Skimmers have been working consistently with no issues.

questions:
the wedge pipe of my SM250 is closed more than 50%. it is working fine and skimming well, but I want to know what happens if I higher the level of the water in the skimmer compartment so that I can open more the wedge pipe?

when you open the wedge pipe you allow more flow in the reaction chamber, which means more turnover of water in the chamber correct? is this beneficial to the skimming process or not?

I am thinking that the more turn over in the reaction chamber the more particles the skimmer could trap??

I am now working the SM 250 at a water level of 22cm, I am thinking of highering the level to 25 cms so that I can open the wedge pipe more.

would this be a good idea to try or should I just leave everything as it is now?
please explain me why in you answer.

thanks

Go ahead and raise the water level in the sump. It won't impact the performance at all. Opening the wedge pipe has no impact on flow nor does the water level in the sump. Closing the wedge pipe raise the level inside the skimmer just like raising the sump level raises the level inside the skimmer but neither effect the flow. The pump speed is the only thing that impacts the flow rate.

 

[sensei]

thanks a lot

 

[OffDaHook]

Hello, I have a 500 gallon total water volume setup and currently run a SM200 with a heavy bio-load. I'm looking to upgrade skimmers and am confused on an apples to apples comparison between the Deluxe and SM series.

I'm assuming that the SM250 is compatible to the Deluxe 300 or should I be looking at the Deluxe 250 in comparison to the SM250? Or am I off on what size I should upgrade to all together, any thoughts?

 

[nornicle]

Hi there looking to join the BK club. if i run a roller mat on a 120 gallon and run the heavier ‘1/2 inch per gallon’ load should i be using the 180 or 150 double cone?

 

[slief]

Hello, I have a 500 gallon total water volume setup and currently run a SM200 with a heavy bio-load. I'm looking to upgrade skimmers and am confused on an apples to apples comparison between the Deluxe and SM series.

I'm assuming that the SM250 is compatible to the Deluxe 300 or should I be looking at the Deluxe 250 in comparison to the SM250? Or am I off on what size I should upgrade to all together, any thoughts?

Sorry for the late reply. Had this question been posted in the bubble king form, I would've caught it immediately. Our skimmers are very conservatively rated and should be based on the display volume and not the system volume. FWIW, I have a bio load based on our standards is 1/2 inch of fish per display gallon. Chances are you're SuperMarin 200 is more than up for the task. I ran a SuperMarin 250 on a 500 gallon display (700 total gallons) with over 70 fish in it and nearly a dozen of those were 8 inches plus. And that skimmer could've handled a lot more. I would not have run a 300 on that system. If you are seriously considering an upgrade, the deluxe 250 would be better suited for handling a moderate to heavy load with your display size.

 

[slief]

Hi there looking to join the BK club. if i run a roller mat on a 120 gallon and run the heavier "˜1/2 inch per gallon' load should i be using the 180 or 150 double cone?

Tough call there. I probably lean towards the 180 as it's easier to tune than the 150 but a Mini 160 wouldn't be a bad choice since it's set it & forget it where as the Double Cone 150 takes a bit of time & patience to get it dialed in with the adjustable nozzle.