This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=8583057#post8583057
Bubble Master Skimmers more info wanted???
- Thread starter JohnL
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when you feed the H&S from your overflow (i think you put ball valve i not remember i read that post long time ago) do you know how much water volume you feed the skimmer ?
and what water volume clkwrk feed now the skimmer ?
maybe the result of his skimming because the different water volume that the skimmer feed in .
P.S sorry if i was misunderstood but i didn't mean to ask you to try that with your LFS.
and what water volume clkwrk feed now the skimmer ?
maybe the result of his skimming because the different water volume that the skimmer feed in .
P.S sorry if i was misunderstood but i didn't mean to ask you to try that with your LFS.
UCanDoIt
In Memoriam
Well, mavgi, we just split the thread tonight. That's a first for me. :thumbsup:
For me, again, I had a light bioload on my 175g FOWLR tank. My turnover in my overflows was about 480gph. I had a direct feed that was about 250gph to my skimmer, the ball valve tailored back the remainning waterflow through a wet/dry filter.
I don't know what the rate was for clkwrk. I'll see if he can respond.
Not much has changed with my skimmer. I did have a full cup of yesterday in a 24 hr stint. (light watery skimmate)
now its back to normal. (A dark tea color.) The air flow is the same at 40+ scfh on each pump running. No increase of noise, Looks to be the bubbles at the top of the neck are smaller.
I still dont think its really broken in yet.
I am still very impressed with the skimmer.
One thing i did do the day the cup filled up fast was clean the tank and blow detritus off the rocks. I am thinking that may have done it. Dunno, But the skimmer is stabil now.
The only thing i would have changed on the first 200's and 250's would have been to controll the waterlevel. The new models seem to be able do do that The small mod i did allowed me to lower the water level a littlebit and achive a darker skimmate.
I know i could get it lower another 3/4 inch, But i am happy with whats its doing where its at.
Another good feature is that NO bubbles escape the body. If some do it is so minute i cant see it.
I'll get a skimmate shot this eve.
now its back to normal. (A dark tea color.) The air flow is the same at 40+ scfh on each pump running. No increase of noise, Looks to be the bubbles at the top of the neck are smaller.
I still dont think its really broken in yet.
I am still very impressed with the skimmer.
One thing i did do the day the cup filled up fast was clean the tank and blow detritus off the rocks. I am thinking that may have done it. Dunno, But the skimmer is stabil now.
The only thing i would have changed on the first 200's and 250's would have been to controll the waterlevel. The new models seem to be able do do that The small mod i did allowed me to lower the water level a littlebit and achive a darker skimmate.
I know i could get it lower another 3/4 inch, But i am happy with whats its doing where its at.
Another good feature is that NO bubbles escape the body. If some do it is so minute i cant see it.
I'll get a skimmate shot this eve.
Roland Jacques
Premium Member
The thread split and so are the opinions.
Lets hear yours. Heres mine.
The BM 150, APF 600 "non comparison" comparisons. Is it a case of the cups half full or half empty? (assuming that the BM-150 is finished setleing in) Some look at the skimmate collected in time between the BM 150 and that APF 600 and conclude that the 600 darker clearer skimmate is better, and others think the 150 cloudy lighter skimmate performed better. Personally id say the skimmate comparison between those to is both very close in production both quantity and quality. IMO when the results are that close you cant say which is clearly better. Since i cant ask any more questions i assume the quanity of skimmate slightly goes to the BM 150 beacause of the smaller ID neck = cup holds more water per ". If you could evaporate the water out and then measure the solids that may help in a concluesion.
I for one never even considered the BM150. It just did not look like it has the advantages of the other 2 BMs. I would say with what i have seen so far out of the BM150 it is well worth the $400 price tag. what do you think? (Youcandoit, this is not a question)
Unexpected disappointments so far.
1. Quality control. some leak some missing parts. (It looks like Greg on top of this)
2. Long breakin time for most. (most skimmers looking like 3 weeks)
3. The need for adjustable output. (already taking care of)
I think give the 250s another weak to break in and we will see what every one thinks.
Lets hear yours. Heres mine.
The BM 150, APF 600 "non comparison" comparisons. Is it a case of the cups half full or half empty? (assuming that the BM-150 is finished setleing in) Some look at the skimmate collected in time between the BM 150 and that APF 600 and conclude that the 600 darker clearer skimmate is better, and others think the 150 cloudy lighter skimmate performed better. Personally id say the skimmate comparison between those to is both very close in production both quantity and quality. IMO when the results are that close you cant say which is clearly better. Since i cant ask any more questions i assume the quanity of skimmate slightly goes to the BM 150 beacause of the smaller ID neck = cup holds more water per ". If you could evaporate the water out and then measure the solids that may help in a concluesion.
I for one never even considered the BM150. It just did not look like it has the advantages of the other 2 BMs. I would say with what i have seen so far out of the BM150 it is well worth the $400 price tag. what do you think? (Youcandoit, this is not a question)
Unexpected disappointments so far.
1. Quality control. some leak some missing parts. (It looks like Greg on top of this)
2. Long breakin time for most. (most skimmers looking like 3 weeks)
3. The need for adjustable output. (already taking care of)
I think give the 250s another weak to break in and we will see what every one thinks.
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I would like to add some positive's . The meshwheel has to be one of the biggest innovations of the year and the simplicity of it, Look at all the diyers going nutty over it.
The pumps are very strong, and is built very well, and the power consumption is very low. Last point of the pumps is that tey are silent! That goes a long way in this hobby.
ATI used pumps that are STRONG. I will never need a stronger pump on this skimmer.
The design of the up and overflow water return is a great idea of getting every last bubble to stay in the skimmer.
The bubble plate is a nice feature to handle these strong pumps and all the turbulence you would get otherwise without.
The skimmer itself is built pretty well. I coudnt find a flaw in workmanship.
The price is very good considering what i would have to pay for a comparable skimmer.
I feel like i could add a bunch of fish or use it on a tank double its size. I am really looking forward to rolands results on his tank!!!
Minor problems with QC on the leaky ones people have gotten are there, But i have only heard of one or 2 out of a whole lot that came in the first shippmet. Not too bad.
The adj standpipe would be nice from the get go.
The 250's were missing orings, But not that much of a biggie.
Thicker walled acrylic in the main body and cup would be nice, But that would raise price of materials up a deal so its a wash. For me anyways.
The wrong sized meshwheel was used on accident, But is a easy fix and is corrected.
Thats my take so far.
The pumps are very strong, and is built very well, and the power consumption is very low. Last point of the pumps is that tey are silent! That goes a long way in this hobby.
ATI used pumps that are STRONG. I will never need a stronger pump on this skimmer.
The design of the up and overflow water return is a great idea of getting every last bubble to stay in the skimmer.
The bubble plate is a nice feature to handle these strong pumps and all the turbulence you would get otherwise without.
The skimmer itself is built pretty well. I coudnt find a flaw in workmanship.
The price is very good considering what i would have to pay for a comparable skimmer.
I feel like i could add a bunch of fish or use it on a tank double its size. I am really looking forward to rolands results on his tank!!!
Minor problems with QC on the leaky ones people have gotten are there, But i have only heard of one or 2 out of a whole lot that came in the first shippmet. Not too bad.
The adj standpipe would be nice from the get go.
The 250's were missing orings, But not that much of a biggie.
Thicker walled acrylic in the main body and cup would be nice, But that would raise price of materials up a deal so its a wash. For me anyways.
The wrong sized meshwheel was used on accident, But is a easy fix and is corrected.
Thats my take so far.
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ucandoit congratulation the split made by you
i think the ati are very good skimmer but the break in time take more time then any other skimmer more then that they somehow more sensetive then other skimmer but as roland said it's need to take more time to be sure.
here it's compare between the deltec 851 and ATI250 (eheim pump) agian i think that need more time to be sure and i know the deltec it is a very good skimmer and as i said it's depend how or what volume the skimmer feed to get better result (and i am going to verify that , i still very interest to know how much GPH clkwrk feed his skimmer because from his answer we can get better perform even on the RC skimmer)
as you can see this was first 4 day skim on the D-851
[/URL][/IMG]
this is the ATI 4 day skim
[/URL][/IMG]
this is 3 day from the D-851 after the skimmer break in and tune:
[/URL][/IMG]
both skimmer run on 300 gallon tank with about 45 big fish and a lot of tangs .
now this is my skimmer on 120 gallon + 8 fish (2 tang,4 wrasse,2 clown) about 18 hour skimming.
[/URL][/IMG]
i think the ati are very good skimmer but the break in time take more time then any other skimmer more then that they somehow more sensetive then other skimmer but as roland said it's need to take more time to be sure.
here it's compare between the deltec 851 and ATI250 (eheim pump) agian i think that need more time to be sure and i know the deltec it is a very good skimmer and as i said it's depend how or what volume the skimmer feed to get better result (and i am going to verify that , i still very interest to know how much GPH clkwrk feed his skimmer because from his answer we can get better perform even on the RC skimmer)
as you can see this was first 4 day skim on the D-851
this is the ATI 4 day skim
this is 3 day from the D-851 after the skimmer break in and tune:
both skimmer run on 300 gallon tank with about 45 big fish and a lot of tangs .
now this is my skimmer on 120 gallon + 8 fish (2 tang,4 wrasse,2 clown) about 18 hour skimming.
UCanDoIt
In Memoriam
I had to wait until my Aquarium technician started his day as I didn't want to comment before I got his professional opinion on the photo of your friend's skimmer... and he does agree with me.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8584758#post8584758 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
..... i saw deltec 851 (very good skimmer) on 300 gallon tank with about 45 fish (big tangs) and what you show on the bm200 he don't get in 4 days , he also have the ATI250(with the eheim pump) and when i saw the first compare the ATI give better result. my ATI skim better then his on small bioload and small tank.....
as you can see this was first 4 day skim on the D-851
[/URL][/IMG]
..... both skimmer run on 300 gallon tank with about 45 big fish and a lot of tangs.....
I owned a H&S A200-1260 for 5 months and I know it performs very similar to the Deltec APF851 and pricing is not all that different between the 2 models, so pretty much equal skimmers. This is what I originally collected on my A200 after switching from 6 months skimming with a ASM G3X. This is the first 5 days after I fired up my A200 and it is on a light bioload 175g FOWLR.
This is what I was getting on my A200 after it was completely broken in and has been running for 2.5 months. As you can see, initially, I collected more skimmate during the break in period. But I believe as the A200 removed everthing that was leftover from the ASM, production oils from brand new acrylic, and settled into a norm for my tank, the skimmate became a lot darker and definitely stinks worst than any skimmer I had before.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7620839#post7620839 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by UCanDoIt
After 2.5 months, the skimmer has slowed down from what it was getting earlier. I like to skim very wet, so I was getting this amount about every 3 days. Now, I'm getting darker, more smelly skimmate and below is 7 days from the last time I clean the collection cup and it's time to clean it again. Around this time, when someone walks by my tank, they're trying to figure out what's that smell. I've seen some people actually sniff their underarm to double check.
<IMG SRC="http://usera.imagecave.com/winner/A200-2.5mos.jpg">
Notice how the gunk only collects near the top rim (about the top 2") on the inside riser pipe? My aquarium technician says your friend's AP851 is set incorrectly. It is set way too dry and all the waste is collecting in the entire riser pipe and none of it is getting over the top of the riser pipe. He says this maybe caused by several possible incorrect adjustments:
1. The water flow through rate is too low, needs to be at least 350gph. Also, is there any surging on the feed to the skimmer?
2. The waterlevel within the skimmer is too low, which translates to the bubble breaking level is too low. This causes to much waste buildup within the riser pipe and reduces the performance of the skimmer. The bubble breaking level should be approximately 2" from the top of the riser pipe like this photo.
<IMG SRC="http://usera.imagecave.com/winner/BubbleBreakingLevelHS.jpg">
3. Cannot see the full length of the exhaust. If it is too long of a straight return or is going slightly upward, the back pressure will affect the performance of the AP851. If the exhaust return is over 18", it needs to be always directed downward so gravity is working with the return water all the back into the sump. Also, is there any restriction on the exhaust return piping like a ball valve or reduction of piping size to smaller diameter as these can also affect the performance of the AP851.
Obviously, from the photos of your friend's BM250, that skimmer is set correctly, but the AP851 is definitely not. Adjust the AP851 and he should see a dramatic improvement on performance. HTH
BTW, your post was the straw and split the thread.
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UCanDoIt
In Memoriam
Not a problem with sharing info with him. I actually keep my bubble breaking level a little higher now than I did before. But even if he can get everything reset correctly as well as the bubble breaking level up to what you see in the photo, he will see a significant increase in performance.
As for the BM though, the threadwheel performs very different and Ed recommends a lot lower bubble breaking level or the skimmer will skim way too wet or overflow. Of course, presently, this can only be done with the BM150... and will be doable when revised BM200s and BM250s come in.
As for the BM though, the threadwheel performs very different and Ed recommends a lot lower bubble breaking level or the skimmer will skim way too wet or overflow. Of course, presently, this can only be done with the BM150... and will be doable when revised BM200s and BM250s come in.
Sharkboy97
New member
when are these "revised" skimmers coming out?
Fliger
New member
Did anyone get an LPH for the BM150? Also Christine - is there an optimal water level for the sump water? IIRC the most important thing is consistant water level but is there an "optimal" height? I'm looking forward to the skimmer, thanks again for the hookup. Ed is very nice to work with.
my 250 sit in 9" water in the sump , i believe you will take from one pump with the original mesh about 18l/min or 40 scfh.
i modify my 2 pump so i pull about 20l/min and on both from the silencer i pull 30l/min and reduce it to 25l/min.
i am able to skim wet and dry with my 250.
Nevermind i found a ezchart calculator. God i love the internet.
Thats 63.6 scfh
http://www.flowlineoptions.com/tools.html
Thats 63.6 scfh
http://www.flowlineoptions.com/tools.html
here is a great link by RandyStacyE :
http://www.randystacye.com/images/diyventuri/AirSCFHConversion.xls
Sharkboy97
New member
Do you think if i called........Greg? is it? at reefgeek and ordered one i could ask to wait untill the newer versions come in?
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