Budget Reef setup

[bored4long]

I'm trying to determine the minimum amount of equipment and associated costs to get a reef system going.

My goal is to eventually have a 120 gallon reef tank with lots of corals and a few fish. My greatest concern is what I MUST have right now to get started versus what can be added along the way as improvements and such.

From what I've read, I'm thinking a closed loop system for the flow and a sump/'fuge plus protein skimmer for the filtration. I would also need an RO/DI filter. Am I missing any other startup expenses (besides the tank/stand/canopy).

Questions:
1. Do i need a chiller? If so, what is the cheapest, but reliable one I could get for this size system? The room this tank would be in sometimes reaches 85 degrees on the triple digit days.

2. What is the cheapest RO/DI you would recommend?

3. What is the minimum lighting you would recommend?

I have a 55 tall that I would like to use for the sump if it isn't too tall. I plan on building the stand, canopy and skimmer. So the biggest costs I'm concerned about are the RO/DI filter, closed loop pump, lighting and chiller (if required). I also plan on using DIY rock for most of the reef.

Thanks for your help!
- Mark

 

[Jim_S]

Others, I'm sure will disagree, but I thought I'd just give you my $.02

It is my experience that in this hobby if you buy cheap, you buy twice. Is this always true? No. However, there are certain things that you can be creative with.

Having a chiller is a must with sps corals IMO (unless you have another way to maintain a pretty stable temp). They like stability, and majot temp fluctuations will = a ton of money lost of sweet frags down the road.

If you just plan on running a mixed reef, a set of fans should work fine to keep your temp down. I use some fans I bought at Target....

Lighting: Many people have had/are having great success with T5's. They are a cheaper, and cooler (temp wise) alternative to metal halides. I tried them for a year, and was not happy with the results. I switched back to MH and will continue to run them until LED's catch up in the next few years....

I would say buy a MH retro kit, and you'll be golden. Check with Brian up at The Coral Reef Shop. I got my latest MH set-up there. Great customer service... and I really like his shop

As for RO/DI, Take a look at the Typhoon III. Great units.

Also, don't forget to account for a good skimmer. They're a must as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[bored4long]

Hi Jim:

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your candor. I am very congnizant of the risk of buying cheap. This is the main reason I'm asking these questions. I want to know from your experience what corners I can cut in the beginning without jeopardizing the system as a whole and still begin to build a successful reef. I would prefer to buy only what I must now, and postpone other equipment until I can afford something that will last. A good example of this would be going with weaker lighting in the beginning and just put off the more demanding corals until I can afford the supporting lighting.

I plan on building my own skimmer. Is this a mistake?

If it turns out that I just can't afford to do saltwater right now, I'll just go freshwater until I can afford it.

Another question: anyone have the tap water params for Rocklin?

 

[kevin95695]

Spend your money on the lights.

I like my MARS DIY skimmer.

Everything else you can get for cheap used off RC, craigslist, etc.

Now that I have a chiller, I'd never go back-- but they're not cheap.

Check into 'Coral Reef Shop' in Carmichael regarding water.

 

[matttaylor]

Rocklin water sux big time. I works great for fw, but trying to use it for a reef, especially sps, is not a good idea. Believe me i've tried.

 

[mpoletti]

You can also get your water at Yourreef. It is a lttle closer. Fill it up with tap. Let it cycle through, then when you do water changes and top offs, then go ahead and use the good water.

My advice is have a plan, be patient, look on the different boards for deals and knowledge, and don't hesitate on asking questions.

We have all had mishaps and successes and we use this forum to help our selves as well as others. There will always be new people coming into the hobby as well as people who are leaving.

 

[Justin74]

I am constantly cutting corners as money doesnt come easily for me.
So far what Ive noticed on your list that can cut is the RO/DI unit.
Typhoon is an excellent brand, in fact I have one myself and would highly recommend them. Although, a comparible one can be bought through ebay. Minh would be a good person to ask if he doesnt chime in as he has one. Simple modifications can make it just as good as any 300 dollar unit but for 99+tx and shipping, and maybe 30-40$ in mods.

Lighting comes with a plethera of possibilities. Actually on a innitial cost basis, T5 are not cheaper getting started when trying to match a MH's wattage.For ex:
(1)250w retrokit $80 +$70 bulb)= approx. $150

v
6x39w(234w) retrokit $334 + $120 bulbs(6@$20ea)= approx $450


Considerable difference. So do your reading, shopping, and dont buy ANYTHING without cross referencing the product on eBay first! Good luck, and as far as FW v SW goes, treat yourself---dont cheat yourself!

-Justin

 

[DarkDevil]

building your own stuff may not be a bad idea, since every system is different and everybody's demand is different, like space, size, etc. but almost everybody who DIY will have a hard time getting the stuff right the first time for whatever reason.

like you said you are building your own skimmer, you may run into design problems, even if you copy someone else design, there's always little here and there problem if you have no prior experience with any skimmer at all. of course your experience in handling acrylic and machine tools to make it have to take into consideraion also.

with all being said, I have built my own skimmer before, it worked great since I have done an extensive research on it and I have couple store bought skimmer too to learn why they work or not and incorporate into my own design. but the skimmer I made still have couple flaws that I think I can improve for the next run. it's all up to you, DIY is good if you like to build things or like to solve problems, otherwise, spend a little more for a good store bought ones and save yourself a bit headache.

 

[Unarce]

Whether you choose a fish only or reef tank, the most expensive initiall cost will be the live rock (with a 75g+ tank). You can't really avoid this, as it's the most important part of the filtration process. You may be able to find a deal with a teardown (i.e. $1 a pound), but that's rare, and the quality may not be up to par.

I like your original plan of a freshwater tank. The initial cost and monthly maintenance will be A LOT lower. When the baby is older and you have a 'settled' in and are more in tune with your situation, you can slowly change over to SW.

If you feel you can jump into this now, I'd recommend a softies (xenia, zoanthids, mushrooms, etc.) reef tank for the first few years.

-you won't need expensive lights
-a protein skimmer won't be necessary
-trace elements will be taken cared of by monthly water changes
-temperature and salinity aren't major worries
-soft corals are cheap and abundant

Just something to consider

 

[Jacob D]

If you're on a budget don't forget to look at the efficiency of your equipment. The operating cost on a tank that size could be hundreds or thousands of dollars a year (electricity alone) depending on the setup/equipment you choose.

 

[goslugsgo]

I think you could find a quality used skimmer for just slightly more than building the same product yourself (due to the cost of 6' acrylic cylinder and other pieces in small quantities), with fewer headaches. People are always upgrading or getting out of the hobby and you'll see insane deals on used gear. The quality names (Eheim, Sequence, Euro-reef, etc) will last whether they are new or new to you.
One budget lighting idea would be to get a 50/50 VHO DIY from Hello Lights for about $100 that will carry you as you move up the learning curve vis a vis water chemisry, maintenance, etc. When you want to get into more demanding species, just move the VHO into actinic supplementation duty and add MH DIY.

Or you could set a date of, say, May 2008 and make a schedule of what you're going to save for and buy each month. Also, when people ask what you want for birthday/X-mas/Columbus Day, bam! there's your list. My family loves the "no hassle shopping experience!"

 

[bored4long]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10164488#post10164488 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Unarce
Whether you choose a fish only or reef tank, the most expensive initiall cost will be the live rock (with a 75g+ tank). You can't really avoid this, as it's the most important part of the filtration process.

Until recently I never considered a reef tank as an option, due to the startup costs. But after doing lots of investigation into the DIY aspects of the hobby, I started getting excited. One of the biggest cost savings measures that has fueled my recent enthusiasm is the reduced startup costs by making my own base rock. I've followed the DIY rocks! thread very closely and am starting to experiment with different formulas. Building this system pivots on whether I can build some decent DIY rock. It also gives me a pretty clear timeline for building/acquiring the other equipment. The rock will take about 8 weeks to cure and another 8-12 weeks or so to seed in the tank.

 

[bored4long]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10164779#post10164779 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mothra
If you're on a budget don't forget to look at the efficiency of your equipment. The operating cost on a tank that size could be hundreds or thousands of dollars a year (electricity alone) depending on the setup/equipment you choose.

This is probably the greatest intangible cost that I need to consider before diving in. Thanks for reminding me. Once I determine all the equipment I need, I'll definitely have to calculate the impact on my electricity bill.

This is also the reason I want to get an RO/DI filter at the start, as I believe it will quickly pay for itself and save me lots of $$ in the long run.

 

[kevin95695]

Call Coral Reef Shop. Aks how much RO/DI costs there.

 

[dots]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10164488#post10164488 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Unarce
Whether you choose a fish only or reef tank, the most expensive initiall cost will be the live rock (with a 75g+ tank). You can't really avoid this, as it's the most important part of the filtration process. You may be able to find a deal with a teardown (i.e. $1 a pound), but that's rare, and the quality may not be up to par.

I like your original plan of a freshwater tank. The initial cost and monthly maintenance will be A LOT lower. When the baby is older and you have a 'settled' in and are more in tune with your situation, you can slowly change over to SW.

If you feel you can jump into this now, I'd recommend a softies (xenia, zoanthids, mushrooms, etc.) reef tank for the first few years.

-you won't need expensive lights
-a protein skimmer won't be necessary
-trace elements will be taken cared of by monthly water changes
-temperature and salinity aren't major worries
-soft corals are cheap and abundant

Just something to consider

x2

 

[MrMikeB]

If you want to go fresh water but still do not want to miss out on the coolness of a SW system, try your hand at a smaller nano while you acquire pieces you need to convert over. With a simple nano, you can run many different LPS, SW fish, and even a couple low key SPS like Montis. I see this gives you a nice sandbox to try your hand at the SW side of the house in terms of husbandry w/o going full bore all at once.

No 1000's of dollars in electrical bills (well at least until you upgrade), and its pretty easy to get an entire system for approx $150 used. Add 1 RO/DI - ebay special for $125 delivered and say another $50 for rocks - presto! Your first SW system.

 

[MandM]

I would strongly recommend that you attend our meetings, 3rd Friday of each month, 7pm at the Round Table at Greenback/Madison. Anyone can come, join the club if you like.
Second, spend $40 on Bob Fenner's book, "The Conscietious Marine Aquarist". You will save far more than $40 with his advice and have a lot more success.
Finally, this is not a cheap hobby. Having kids is cheaper. I was told early on that you can count on $50 per gallon to set up a reef and it has been pretty darn close. If you are wanting to start cheap, you really should wait. Even a simple reef with a few softies is going to cost quite a bit.
You may want to look at the new Red Sea Max, I saw one a Fish Planet for about $600 I think. Start with good water and live rock and don't think of putting a fish into it until you have read Bob's book and have cycled and settled for a few months.

 

[fishnfst]

Start small and simple.. Especially if your budget is as tight as it seems.. I always like to tell people to go as big as you can afford.. They go one size up from there I've changed tank sizes 5 times in the last year.. My current tank has only been up and running for approx 5 months and I already want to go bigger..

Keep your eye out on CL for good deals that come up all the time for lighting and skimmers.. Used ER's go for 100-150 all the time for smaller sizes.. There was an 8-2 for 125 two days ago.. A easy Mh retrofit with magnetic ballast can be had new for 150 or so then the price of a bulb.. Or you can purchase used..

A 120 is going to take quite a bit of lighting. Even for all softies.. Is the tank you have 4 foot or 6 foot? If its 4 foot it's probably 24" deep. If its 6 foot its probably 20" deep.. The height will make a difference in the lights you are looking at..

The ebay DI/RO units are not too bad.. Good for the money and startup.. You can add another full sized DI canister later on down the line..

The salt is going to run you approx 40 for your first bucket to fill a 120 with a little left over..

Recurring cost of electricity will get you in the long run though everytime.. If you add it up at the end of the year all other purchases seem pretty minor When I had all my FW tanks going my monthly averaged $600 a month in the winter.. The worst month was close to $900...

If you want to go simple and small this pico has always inspired me to KISS.. "Keep It Simple Stupid" Hope Mel doesn't mind me linking his site..

http://www.melevsreef.com/pico.html

 

[bored4long]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10168384#post10168384 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishnfst
When I had all my FW tanks going my monthly averaged $600 a month in the winter.. The worst month was close to $900...
http://www.melevsreef.com/pico.html

That e-bill just blows my mind. That would be enought to keep me from jumping in the hobby.

I was really tempted to go to the last meeting. Maybe I'll show up at the next.

I've spent a lot of time reading on RC, but never put the costs down on paper. Here are my initial efforts:

1. Closed Loop Pump - Sequence Dart ($229)
2. Lighting - Oddysea ($359)
3. Cheap skimmer or DIY ~ $125
4. Return pump for sump ?
5. RO/DI ?

 

[fishsoldseprtly]

you want to go CHEAP? IMO this is one of the most expensive hobbies, its like paying monthly payments towards a nice car.

Simple solution:
I say if you want to go cheap, save as much as you can and look for a nice used set up on Craigslist Sacramento/SF bay area.