Buying an established aquarium?

[Sk8r]

The ideal size for a marine tank for beginners is about 100 gallons. A built-in overflow is preferable to a hang-on-back (HOB). A sump is better than no sump. If you're fish-only you can get by with no sump and a large cannister filter. But if you want corals and such (they're not hard) a skimmer is recommended. A large (30 gallon and up) sump with a refugium is good. It can also hold your skimmer, a GFO reactor (cuts down on algae) and anything else you need. By buying used you can get a deal on such a system, but you need to have one more tank, about 30 gallons, bare of rock and sand, to hold all the inhabitants while the 'moved' tank re-settles and establishes its bio-system. I have a 102 gallon with half-inch thick glass, and it took two strong young men to set it on its stand. Moving one of these is not easy

You need that extra tank anyway to hold your new specimens for 4 weeks of observation: marine wild-caught fish bring in parasites and disease that can wipe out a tank---and you can't treat a marine tank with meds: it kills the biofilter and wipes out the tank.

Lighting matters, and T5s or metal halide will let you keep most corals, clams, etc. Lighting IS NOT CHEAP. Understand LED lights before you buy any such...there are good ones and ones that are pretty weak. Ordinary aquarium light will let you keep a fish-only.

In my own experience a fish-only is a very nice tank, but fish are far touchier than corals IF you have good coral equipment. My corals grow and live very easily. Many fish offered for sale are far more fragile. Plus---when you look at the advertising for marine equipment it looks as if you can pack all these fish into a tank: no: this is photoshopping and fantasy. You also can't keep as many as the fish store has in a tank: their sump system is a monster, and they have FAR more support than you can typically offer.

re your very good question on sand-cleaning, yes: nassarius snails burrow and clean; likewise fighting conchs; and some fish clean (and move) sand in piles.

All this said, I have maintained a successful (though algae-ridden) marine tank in a single 30-gallon long with nothing more than a penguin filter.

 

[jdstank]

Ok, I figured set up would require assistance until I had more experience.

Jdstank, for the dry sand, are there animals that would burrow and clean it? How often does it need to be cleaned if not?

Also, I read somewhere that live sand overtime may accumulate pockets of hydrogen sulfide and can wipe out an entire tank. Is there any truth to that statement? I of course immediately think of purple sulfur bacteria which may but shouldn't other microbes exist that would "eat" those pockets? What does that mean as far as cleaning etc?

The dry sand I mentioned has some advantages in that it's not packed wet and thus won't suffer die off sitting on a shelf. In terms of cleaning, all sand should be cleaned, but if you want to leave it up to animals that depend on the gunk in sand to survive you'll have to wait for your tank to become established no matter what sand you use. I like the reef grade sand because it's a larger particle and with a wavemaker I don't have the sandstorms that the sugar sand has. I've tried the Oolite - way too fine, the Fiji Pink, a step up but still had sand storms, and Ocean Direct - all too fine for my taste.

As for animals burrowing, your sand sifting fish (gobies in particular) will move pretty much anything. Some snails advertised as sand algae eaters don't actually eat anything in the sand but will sift it, and your bigger guys like sand sifting starfish need established systems or they will starve (they can eat a LOT of gunk in the sand and thus need bottom square footage rather than tank depth).

Any sandbed left untouched can build up toxic amounts of gases in the deeper parts, light vacuuming during water changes can help alleviate that problem by keeping the sand turned but not stripping all of the good bacteria from it.

Depending on who you ask, some will say no sand (bb - bare bottom), others use a shallow sand bed, some a mid, and others a deep sand bed. My personal preference is a 2-3" bed, the DSB (6"+) can acrue some nasty stuff. Too shallow and you find bare spots frequently from critters and water current moving it around. The 2-3" works well for me, not too deep that I can't keep it clean, and not too shallow to where I see bare spots all the time.

Personally, I just use a vacuum and sift varying areas of my sand during water changes. I have a few critters that keep it moved around pretty good but there's no substitute for good husbandry. I do have a large LTA that moves around in "his" corner every couple weeks and he has no problem shoving his foot through the sand. My Clarkii that resides in him seems a bit OCD about moving sand and regularly pushes piles around the tank. He may be the culprit for the nem moving, his pushing piles of sand around changes the water flow on the nems foot which seems to trigger a move. He likes to live under the nem as much as in it so he's always kicking the sand from under the nem when it moves.

 

[jdstank]

I don't personally like the 55 because it is too narrow, front to back. A 75/90 is minimum for me, with a 48" 120 even better. Tiny tanks are just too twitchy IME.

Definitely agree on the 55g. Front to back is just 12" on a 55 and scaping the rock is a huge challenge. To me the looks of the rock is 90% of the tank so I prefer a large footprint for aquascaping. 75g will get you an additional 6" front to back which may not seem like much but will make a dramatic difference in what you can and can't do with rock. 55's will pretty much limit you to a linear setup where rock runs side to side with little depth. 75s and up will gain you some ability to create outcroppings with depth, islands and such. I went through the aquascaping battles with narrow tanks (have had 29, 37, 55, 75 and 40b), loved my 75 and 40b but will never go back to a rectangle shaped tank after having switched to a cube style.

 

[acanlover]

If you are new to the hobby I advise against buying an established tank. Simply because it's "established." You being new to the hobby won't know to the full potential how to properly maintain a reef. That being said if something goes wrong it will be exponentially worse because of all the livestock already in there and you will get more emotional when everything you worked to move starts dying. You also get more experience and a better relationship as in knowing exactly how your tank works when you start it from scratch.

 

[Sk8r]

My tanks are wedges...one so deep I have trouble reaching anything that hits the sand---(a 3-4" sandbed is REALLY useful in that scenario!) but they offer a good compromise for one of those rooms that lacks long-run wall space. THe drawback is that the stand of the 55 is too small for anything but a large cannister filter.

I also drilled the floor to let hose through and maintain my sump in the basement.

 

[Sk8r]

A comment on moving the critters of a large tank: first of all, they need to go into a 4 week quarantine. If a problem develops, like ich, keep them in quarantine for 10-12 weeks, because that tank will also have the parasite. It will starve out in 12 weeks and you'll have no trouble.

You do have beginner problems coupled with a large quarantine, and establishing an ATO (autotopoff) on that quarantine tank is mandatory in a long stay (or you'll go crazy.) The main thing is to maintain parameters such as I have in my sig line and do it 24/7/365. There are tricks to make that a lot easier. The ATO is central to them all.

 

[Cesfilly]

Ok all great advice. So I am definitely not planning on buying an established aquarium. I really want to set it up to the way I will like it including fish choice. I already have a tank I can use for quarantine.

My local LFS said a great option for beginners was a 29 gallon biocube. Thoughts? I realize water changes would need to be religious, were they just trying to make a quick sale (I said I would think about it and have not purchased anything)?

 

[Cesfilly]

And thanks jdstank! Really helpful info.

 

[jdstank]

Ok all great advice. So I am definitely not planning on buying an established aquarium. I really want to set it up to the way I will like it including fish choice. I already have a tank I can use for quarantine.

My local LFS said a great option for beginners was a 29 gallon biocube. Thoughts? I realize water changes would need to be religious, were they just trying to make a quick sale (I said I would think about it and have not purchased anything)?

Never owned a biocube but from posts I've seen most people end up having to modify the backs to get them dialed in. Even then you're limited due to the All-in-one aspect. Lighting is probably one of the biggest drawbacks of the biocubes, you're kind of stuck with what they have unless you want to pay for a major retrofit LED kit (in which case you're throwing money away on the original unless you buy just the cube which is possible) I guess something to help would be to know what fish choice you're looking at? Biocubes are good only for the smallest fish, although people try stuffing tangs and other fish that have no business being in a small tank.

I'd still consider getting a larger used system, established or not. Just because it's established doesn't mean you'll have problems. It's going to need new sand anyway, but assuming the rocks are seasoned you won't have to go through that part of the cycle and will likely pay much less than the $7-10/pound that most LFS charge for live rock. 75 gallons are fairly prevalent on the used market and generally at a good price. At 48" wide you also have lots of options for lighting, new or used.

 

[Cesfilly]

Ok thanks!

 

[Sk8r]

Get your feet wet with a biocube, use it for what you want, then when you want more, sell it and get a larger tank. You know the fishy hobby: there's always an 'I give up' or an 'I want more.' Rarely is there a middle ground.
Good luck to you!

 

[E46Twist]

Even moving freshwater takes is a pain IMO. Something extremely sensitive like a reef tank would be a nightmare unless you really knew what you were doing and did it right. Also being a beginner it has been so much fun watching my glass box transform. If your wanting to skip the cycle you could break a tank down saving the LR by keeping it in water and also saving the water. Then you can move everything piece by piece. You can ask a LFS to hold on to any fish/corals. My LFS has tanks designated to housing fish for people who are moving or have something gobwring in there tank.

It is always a safer bet to start fresh.