Buying an established aquarium?

[Cesfilly]

Hi guys!

I am new to salt water tanks but have had freshwater tanks for several years (I realize there are few similarities). Is there anything wring with buying an established tank from Craig's list? As long as water changes/upkeep is maintained?

How much does it cost (ball park, I know it would vary based on the tank) weekly?

Is there anything else I should know? (Besides investigating fish that come with the aquarium, special needs, etc)

Or is it better to start from scratch. Please no angry comments, if this is a no no, it's why I am asking before doing it

 

[bundybear1981]

Its a lot of work to move an established tank. Sand will be full of detris, to reuse it would require lots of cleaning (better to start with new sand) you may trigger a new cycle moving it.

Also you could end up with specimens you dont really want/like, or that are beyond you current skill level to care for.
You can score some good deals but make sure you research what you are getting. There is some junk out there. Make sure that copper treatments havent been used on the tank.
My tank costs about au$20 per week to run.
For your first tank I'd say start from scratch, you can build what you want. Learn a lot along the way and build the skills you need.
Sure, use craigslist to get some used equipment. People are always upgrading and you can get some good deals.

 

[SGT_York]

There is nothing wrong with buying used, however many people leave this hobby due to failures, caused by unrealisting expectations in bio-load, failure to plan, and high costs. So most used tanks will have some sorts of issues especially if you plan on introducing corals. High nitrates are a plague that can affect a tank for years to come. I bought my first batch of Live rock and it took more than a year to reduce the nitrates to an acceptable level because the original tank was so poorly run. Certainly buying equipment used can be a great bargain. Buying live items yes, but with increased risks.

As far as costs it increases exponentially with tank size. I have a 120Gallon and with salt, I buy 150 Gallon mix boxes every few months. So it's much cheaper $50 each. Food is a few dollars a week, and electricity which I can't really estimate and is very location dependent. Most of the maintenance costs are low unless you are big on reactor media (those can add up particuarly GFO)

 

[BrianD]

One thing to watch when you buy a complete setup used is the seller will sometimes list 900 different items they are selling and only a fraction of them are actually useful for the tank setup. Aquarists are notorious for "underbuying" on equipment, only to upgrade in a short time. So, there may be 5 pumps in a complete setup sale, but only one of them is needed. Etc etc etc. It looks impressive when the seller says "cost over $10k new!", but it isn't so impressive when $6k of the $10k was replaced or gathering dust.

 

[marcaharding]

one of your biggest expenses will be live rock, depending on your tank size, I purchased a 55 gallon from craigslist and had to upgrade filtration and lights. I got over 50 pounds of live rock that I transported and completely cleanded the tank and used new live sand and it still took around 30 days to cycle. Once the system is running I would plan on the 15-25 a week but in the beginning plan on spending alot more money with more frequent water changes and testing. Good luck

 

[Spyderturbo007]

I don't think I would buy an established aquarium, just because I enjoy being able to set mine up how I want. I'm not locked into someone elses' aquascaping, coral or fish choices.

I would buy used equipment though.

 

[ca1ore]

I have both bought and sold 'established' reef tanks. First and foremost, buyer beware! Most folks who are selling their tanks have a completely unrealistic perspective on what the thing is worth - usually based on the amount they have sunk into the hobby. Salt water is an incredibly corrosive environment, so inspect equipment very carefully lest you get it home only to discover that the light fixture that looked good on the outside is a rusted mess on the inside (I know this from personal experience). Very often used equipment is no bargain in the long-run, so I tend to look at it from the perspective that I am buying the livestock primarily, and the equipment just comes along for the ride.

Example, I bought a 90 gallon setup off craigslist about a year ago. Tank looked really nice and was packed with rock, fish and corals. Cursory valuation of the livestock I figured was over $2K if bought from my LFS, so I paid $1,200 for the entire thing. Got it home, and reset up things. Livestock was in very nice shape, but the equipment - not so much. Light fixture worked, but ultimately was replaced and the parts scavenged for other applications. Both the skimmer and main pumps needed new impellers in short order and the UV ballast failed after about a month. And I really inspected this stuff. So, caveat emptor. Was happy to have bought the tank just based off the livestock, but would have been very unhappy if the equipment had been my primary goal.

 

[ken6217]

I do not think it is a good idea for someone new to this hobby to buy an established aquarium (even if everything you buy sets up perfect).

It is better to start from scratch and LEARN about saltwater (water quality/parameters, equipment, livestock, etc, etc).

If you buy everything established, you won't be forced to learn until things go downhill for you. And, they will go downhill because you don't have the knowledge and experience of what is going on with your tank.
Ken

 

[Cesfilly]

Thanks guys these are all good points. So it would be good to get the equipment used *or* a tank with just live rock and sand and replace the sand and make sure to cycle the tank/check all equipment but expect to replace some of it. Yes? I really wouldn't want to be responsible for killing any livestock and it would be nice to plan what kind of livestock would be in the tank.

How important is a sump/refugarium in a 55 gallon tank? (I'm not trying to skimp, I just want to make sure I have a big picture idea) how hard are they to add? Does the protein skimmer always go into the sump? I have read about ones that attach to the side but are they as effective? Or are they so noisy you want them in a sump?

 

[Cesfilly]

I also meant to add does a sump/refugarium also depend on the fish being stocked?

 

[ken6217]

Thanks guys these are all good points. So it would be good to get the equipment used *or* a tank with just live rock and sand and replace the sand and make sure to cycle the tank/check all equipment but expect to replace some of it. Yes? I really wouldn't want to be responsible for killing any livestock and it would be nice to plan what kind of livestock would be in the tank.

How important is a sump/refugarium in a 55 gallon tank? (I'm not trying to skimp, I just want to make sure I have a big picture idea) how hard are they to add? Does the protein skimmer always go into the sump? I have read about ones that attach to the side but are they as effective? Or are they so noisy you want them in a sump?

Nothing wrong with that. Btw, it didn't mean you would necessarily kill everything. I just meant that learning by doing can be good.

I theory was always that what's good about a tank cycling is that it gives someone time to read and learn.

A sump is a good idea. With regards to a refugium, it has it's benefits but not necessarily a a necessity. You can also combine the two if you have one big enough.
Ken

 

[jdstank]

You'll save tons of $ buying a used tank and equipment which will free up money for other items such as sand/rock/livestock. If you have established live rock it can save you from cycling a tank if done right (don't use the "live sand"). Check out CaribSea Aragonite Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand. It's a dry sand that just needs cleaned with RODI really well and with live rock that's coming from an established system you can avoid any cycle as the dry sand won't contain the bacteria that "live sand" does that's already dying off in the bags as they sit on the shelf. The sand I mentioned can be found for less than $30 for a 40lb bag, 2 will be plenty for a 55g tank. It's really no different than buying a tank, sand and live rock from a LFS which is how many people dive into the hobby. A few go the route of buying base rock and curing it, but even they typically use some form of established rock or rubble to get the bacteria going.

Sumps aren't 100% necessary, but they do aid in hiding the uglier parts of reef keeping like protein skimmers. There are some large HOB options for a 55, anything larger and a HOB will really struggle to keep up under anything other than a small bioload. Skimmers can be in-sump or plumbed to the sump but run outside of the sump (not your typical setup as in-sump is much easier). They also allow you to grow chaeto and other macros for aid in nutrient export without taking up display room in your main tank. If the 55 isn't drilled yet you can pick up a bit from Amazon or Ebay for around $10, bulkheads are also available on Ebay for much less than most places charge - you'll need at least 3 (drain, return and emergency drain) to run a sump.

 

[ca1ore]

I do not think it is a good idea for someone new to this hobby to buy an established aquarium (even if everything you buy sets up perfect).

It is better to start from scratch and LEARN about saltwater (water quality/parameters, equipment, livestock, etc, etc).

If you buy everything established, you won't be forced to learn until things go downhill for you. And, they will go downhill because you don't have the knowledge and experience of what is going on with your tank.
Ken

That is actually a really good point!

 

[ca1ore]

You'll save tons of $ buying a used tank and equipment which will free up money for other items such as sand/rock/livestock.

Respectfully disagree! Might save a bit upfront, but over the long haul it really does not. Of course, most people don't end up in it for the long haul so ......

 

[ca1ore]

How important is a sump/refugarium in a 55 gallon tank? (I'm not trying to skimp, I just want to make sure I have a big picture idea) how hard are they to add? Does the protein skimmer always go into the sump? I have read about ones that attach to the side but are they as effective? Or are they so noisy you want them in a sump?

There are 'must haves' and 'nice to haves', and while a sump is in the latter category, I'd not consider running a tank without one. It is difficult to effect productive surface skimming without an overflow, and you have to overflow to somewhere; the sump being the best option. A place to keep ugly equipment is just a side benefit.

 

[Cesfilly]

Ok great. I was thinking that something along those lines would be a great way to get into it.

What about biocubes? The "all inclusive tanks"? Are those to be avoided? I read some terrible reviews but I'm not sure how much of that is a small percentage etc. Or if the 55 or larger is a better way to go. I am leaning towards a larger tank because or water quality and stability but I just was curious about people's thoughts on biocubes.

Also, this may be a dumb question, but if you get a sump and an in-sump skimmer, do they come with directions on how to set them up? That is a little of what is terrifying me at the moment because I have looked at pictures of people sumps/refugarium and it looks really difficult to set up unless you know what you are doing. Is that true?

 

[julie180]

Setting up a tank and sump can be a challenge. Instructions are limited because there are so many options and ways to do things.

One way to learn is connect with other people in your area who are in the hobby. Most reefers I know are happy to show off their systems and answer questions. You can find local clubs at the bottom of the forums here.

 

[ca1ore]

I don't personally like the 55 because it is too narrow, front to back. A 75/90 is minimum for me, with a 48" 120 even better. Tiny tanks are just too twitchy IME.

Skimmer will come with instructions, yes. Not too hard to setup, but your best bet would be to find a reefer in your area who can come over and help you out. Folks generally happy to help.

 

[Cesfilly]

Ok, I figured set up would require assistance until I had more experience.

Jdstank, for the dry sand, are there animals that would burrow and clean it? How often does it need to be cleaned if not?

Also, I read somewhere that live sand overtime may accumulate pockets of hydrogen sulfide and can wipe out an entire tank. Is there any truth to that statement? I of course immediately think of purple sulfur bacteria which may but shouldn't other microbes exist that would "eat" those pockets? What does that mean as far as cleaning etc?

 

[jdstank]

Respectfully disagree! Might save a bit upfront, but over the long haul it really does not. Of course, most people don't end up in it for the long haul so ......

Look at it from the realistic perspective that most people that do stay in it upgrade their tank in relative short order. Tanks can last 20 years if cared for properly, and particularly tanks that were built some years back seem to have been built to last vs tanks of today. Getting a used tank to get started (for a year or so which seems to be the norm for a first tank) would certainly save $ that would otherwise likely be tossed away during upgrade. It's just like buying a used car and letting someone else eat the depreciation.

Like you said, most don't end up staying which would also save money that would otherwise be tossed away as depreciation when that setup gets listed for sale.

My first reef tank was a freebie 29g that was quickly (6months) switched out for a 75g I found on CL for $200 which included 2 bags of unused sand, a SWC skimmer, 40g breeder sump, 2 external return pumps, built in closed loop system, tons of new plumbing, 4xT5 retrofits and the tank. All I had to add was a stand and build a canopy for the retrofits - I barely could have got a new 75g for that price let alone the extras that came with it. The tank was stickered 1993 but was solid as a rock - previous guy took great care of it. I had it for nearly 2 years before upgrading again and passed it on to a new owner for what I paid for it and its running to this date. There's definitely deals to be had in the used market. Just use a sharp eye and pass if something doesn't seem right.