reeflover101
New member
where can i find a copy of the by laws they was on the etrc web site.
By Laws
- Thread starter reeflover101
- Start date
ZombieFlesh
New member
Concerning what?
reeflover101
New member
thanks dave
macclellan
New member
Let's hope there never is! As the proverb goes, it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
+1
reeflover101
New member
was just wondering y we changed the part that said u had to pay the full membership in the middle of the year and not prorate it like always.for example james works alot and sometimes gone for 6 months at a time. when he gets back would he have to pay the 24.00 instead of the 12.00. Its not about the money just the principle
macclellan
New member
We discussed this issue recently at the BOD meeting. As loyal scribe and in the name of transparency, this was our thinking:
This is not a new policy for ETRC (you can check the bylaws for confirmation), and is a common practice. For example, I recently paid the full annual dues to the American Philosophical Association for a mere four months (not to mention that it was far more than ETRC and I get far less out of it!). However, new members are prorated in ETRC. This has been the case for as long as I am aware.
$24 annually is trivial for each individual in the scheme of things (a cup of coffee a month, price of a single frag), but pooled together provides operating funds for a club, the existence of which benefits all members, directly and indirectly, financially and otherwise.
What's wrong with prorating? It creates an incentive for folks to hover around the club without paying, waiting until they "need" to join, for example to participate in a group buy, host a meeting so as to sell frags, etc. Frankly, we don't want to have members looking to 'game the system' or exploit the club solely for financial gain. This is a hobby-related club, not a joint business venture. If you ask yourself "Did I get my money's worth out of ETRC this financial quarter?" then ETRC is not for you. Also, prorating could mean having members constantly shuffle in and out of the club. That is a pain in the rear for the BOD.
So... yes, it is the principle - there are principled and practical reasons for the policy, or at least we think so. Of course, others are free to disagree, but do so at least with the understanding that there are good reasons for the way things are.
This is not a new policy for ETRC (you can check the bylaws for confirmation), and is a common practice. For example, I recently paid the full annual dues to the American Philosophical Association for a mere four months (not to mention that it was far more than ETRC and I get far less out of it!). However, new members are prorated in ETRC. This has been the case for as long as I am aware.
$24 annually is trivial for each individual in the scheme of things (a cup of coffee a month, price of a single frag), but pooled together provides operating funds for a club, the existence of which benefits all members, directly and indirectly, financially and otherwise.
What's wrong with prorating? It creates an incentive for folks to hover around the club without paying, waiting until they "need" to join, for example to participate in a group buy, host a meeting so as to sell frags, etc. Frankly, we don't want to have members looking to 'game the system' or exploit the club solely for financial gain. This is a hobby-related club, not a joint business venture. If you ask yourself "Did I get my money's worth out of ETRC this financial quarter?" then ETRC is not for you. Also, prorating could mean having members constantly shuffle in and out of the club. That is a pain in the rear for the BOD.
So... yes, it is the principle - there are principled and practical reasons for the policy, or at least we think so. Of course, others are free to disagree, but do so at least with the understanding that there are good reasons for the way things are.
Spongie
New member
Very well put Joel.
TD;LR- Payment is accepted on a year to year basis, except for a new member. Always has and most likely will always will be that way.
Also, if anyone wants to become a paying member and suggest other ways for us to use club member dues (or don't collect member dues as the case may be), please feel free to do so. We only become a more viable entity through member input. If you have a great idea for us we all would love to hear it. However, if you aren't interested in joining the club, please don't make suggestions on how to run it. Kinda like the saying goes, "if you didn't vote, you can't complain."
TD;LR- Payment is accepted on a year to year basis, except for a new member. Always has and most likely will always will be that way.
Also, if anyone wants to become a paying member and suggest other ways for us to use club member dues (or don't collect member dues as the case may be), please feel free to do so. We only become a more viable entity through member input. If you have a great idea for us we all would love to hear it. However, if you aren't interested in joining the club, please don't make suggestions on how to run it. Kinda like the saying goes, "if you didn't vote, you can't complain."
Knox_Legend
New member
But what if I vote and the government still sucks regardless how I voted? That being said I don't think 24 bucks a year is much at all. For me it has already paid off in just the people I have met and the knowledge I have gained. Also the frags I have gotten from members that would have been way more expensive if I were to have purchased them retail.
Thanks Joel for jumping in here. Seth, thanks too.
I joined the club in 2004, I think. I do not remember what amount of money I paid, although it seems like it was $24. I also do not remember in which month I joined. So, it may have been at the beginning of the "dues" year. I do remember that after the first meeting I thought that if I was going to have a reef tank that being part of the club was going to be a wise move. I was not joining for the financial rewards. I did hope that I was going to be able to save some money when I got good advice. The good advice, I hoped, might keep me from spending money on things that later I would come to regret. So, from that stand point, it may have been a financial gain or maybe "not so much loss". :fun4:
I did not join with the idea of great fellowship with the members, although I have enjoyed most of the relationships that I have developed during the last 6-7 years. We had a mess last year, but unfortunately that can happen. Today, I would encourage a prospective new member that is thinking about joining with the hope of developing good relationships.
When I joined I do not remember what the policy was about prorating the dues. There may have been one. I just do not remember. I do know that about three years ago there was lots of discussion because a few members for "whatever reason" did not pay the $24 dollars at the beginning of the "year". During the year, some of those wanted to join for "whatever reason" and they wanted to pay for the remainder of the year. It happened. They were allowed to pay for the remaining months. I do not remember who and, for sure, I do not remember all the whys. I am not even sure I ever even knew the whys.
Discussions within the BOD and with the club about "œnot paying up" until part way through the year took place. The policy/principle that we are discussing now was formulated as a result of those discussions.
Several months later we had lots of new members that were joining the club. The discussion then was - should they pay for the whole year - should they have to pay the full $24. Most of us, I think, agreed that they should pay for the remainder of the "year". At that time some people joined just to get a discount at the Coral Reef. There may have been a discount with the Aquatic Marine at time, but I do not remember. Those that joined the club for the discount, for the most part never came to a meeting. They never, as far as I know, ever benefited from club membership except for the LFS discount. This is why some of the members thought that the discounts were why they joined. That was not "œenjoyed" by most members.
BUT, you never know why someone wants to join. We are never, I hope, going to have interview process to join.
I do not feel that is what happened with the last several people that have joined "“ say in the last year or so.
I do remember some of the names. I did not share them here because "¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦. What good would it do?
I apologize for the length of this post. It is the history of this topic as best as I can remember. I am old though. :rollface:
I joined the club in 2004, I think. I do not remember what amount of money I paid, although it seems like it was $24. I also do not remember in which month I joined. So, it may have been at the beginning of the "dues" year. I do remember that after the first meeting I thought that if I was going to have a reef tank that being part of the club was going to be a wise move. I was not joining for the financial rewards. I did hope that I was going to be able to save some money when I got good advice. The good advice, I hoped, might keep me from spending money on things that later I would come to regret. So, from that stand point, it may have been a financial gain or maybe "not so much loss". :fun4:
I did not join with the idea of great fellowship with the members, although I have enjoyed most of the relationships that I have developed during the last 6-7 years. We had a mess last year, but unfortunately that can happen. Today, I would encourage a prospective new member that is thinking about joining with the hope of developing good relationships.
When I joined I do not remember what the policy was about prorating the dues. There may have been one. I just do not remember. I do know that about three years ago there was lots of discussion because a few members for "whatever reason" did not pay the $24 dollars at the beginning of the "year". During the year, some of those wanted to join for "whatever reason" and they wanted to pay for the remainder of the year. It happened. They were allowed to pay for the remaining months. I do not remember who and, for sure, I do not remember all the whys. I am not even sure I ever even knew the whys.
Discussions within the BOD and with the club about "œnot paying up" until part way through the year took place. The policy/principle that we are discussing now was formulated as a result of those discussions.
Several months later we had lots of new members that were joining the club. The discussion then was - should they pay for the whole year - should they have to pay the full $24. Most of us, I think, agreed that they should pay for the remainder of the "year". At that time some people joined just to get a discount at the Coral Reef. There may have been a discount with the Aquatic Marine at time, but I do not remember. Those that joined the club for the discount, for the most part never came to a meeting. They never, as far as I know, ever benefited from club membership except for the LFS discount. This is why some of the members thought that the discounts were why they joined. That was not "œenjoyed" by most members.
BUT, you never know why someone wants to join. We are never, I hope, going to have interview process to join.
I do not feel that is what happened with the last several people that have joined "“ say in the last year or so.
I do remember some of the names. I did not share them here because "¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦. What good would it do?
I apologize for the length of this post. It is the history of this topic as best as I can remember. I am old though. :rollface:
Spongie
New member
Then I would say "Welcome to America"!:wave:
But seriously though. KnoxLegend is right. The enjoyment of the hobby, knowledge that can be gained AND shared, as well as the fellowship of other enthusiasts are the reasons to join the club. The $24 price tag shouldn't even be an issue. I can't even buy a frag of anything that I want for a flat $24.
But I tell you what; since I do want everyone to join and help out. I will silence the naysayers with this. If you join this year and pay full dues, I will give that person a frag of my choice (your tank setup will def. factor into this). :eek1:
You may sell that frag to pay for dues; or grow it into a huge colony and sell it for $300 and then make a thread showing how you made a killing off of some sucker that gave you a free coral. I don't care what you do with it, but seeing as I WANT more people to become members, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is.
p.s. These will not be "lame" frags either.
Knox_Legend
New member
I'll gladly pay my dues for one of Seth's frags heck I would even pay next years dues for another frag. Sounds lie a good deal to me!
I think that this is a lot of to do over very little. I joined and I certainly feel like I got my money's worth. I've met a lot of great people who have helped me get through the trials and tribulations of getting started. I've gotten several free frags from various members and bought several more at bargain basement prices (Thanks all - you know who you are) It's $24 for God's sake, not $2400. I spend that much on my tank virtually everytime I go to the LFS, and it's saved me much more than it costs.
I say that the club rocks and is worth every penny!
Steve W
I say that the club rocks and is worth every penny!
Steve W
Spongie
New member
@ Eddie- If you want one, I will gladly give you one for the effort that you put forth to keep the club solvent. I appreciate that it takes time out of your schedule to do the things that you do. I only wish I had more time to devote to it myself.
@Know Legend- you are more than welcome to pay for 2 years worth but don't feel obliged to.
@Steve- I'm glad that you have enjoyed your time with the club and hope to see you again at the meeting in March. I am glad that you have learned something and that is what truly drives the people to do more in the hobby, a true thirst for knowledge on all things reef related.
@Know Legend- you are more than welcome to pay for 2 years worth but don't feel obliged to.
@Steve- I'm glad that you have enjoyed your time with the club and hope to see you again at the meeting in March. I am glad that you have learned something and that is what truly drives the people to do more in the hobby, a true thirst for knowledge on all things reef related.
reeflover101
New member
Very well put Joel.
TD;LR- Payment is accepted on a year to year basis, except for a new member. Always has and most likely will always will be that way.
Also, if anyone wants to become a paying member and suggest other ways for us to use club member dues (or don't collect member dues as the case may be), please feel free to do so. We only become a more viable entity through member input. If you have a great idea for us we all would love to hear it. However, if you aren't interested in joining the club, please don't make suggestions on how to run it. Kinda like the saying goes, "if you didn't vote, you can't complain."
Funny how a question, turns into a debate. All I did was ask a question. This last 6 months I have had things go wrong or i wold have been a paying member. for example My wife has been in and out of the hospital. Just now getting back on her feet. Number two we where going to be moving and decided to pay off our house we live in now that way it would save us a lot of money in the long run. And just for the record suggestion dont need membership only votes does.
Runner
Active member
Our constitution and bylaws were built on a model recommended by MASNA as a means to become a more organized club (rather than a social club only). I forget the details now. The original board are the ones who did this and they have mostly (if not all) moved on now. I've never heard their reasoning for why they did this from their lips -- just mostly heard the reasoning from the opposing point of view (social club only). But it seems to have been based in being an "official" club and MASNA member/supporter.
EDIT: Suggest away, Travis. Most of us have thick skin. If we didn't, Joel and I would have had a cage match by now.
reeflover101
New member
lol scott I know what you mean. I just hate asking a question and someone else makes it bigger than it is, or cant say something nice they should say nothing at all.
