Calcium and Magnesium wont increase

[Sindjin]

So far, everything has been relatively perfect. I tested my levels tonight and my Ca and Mg were on the low side:

Ca = 330
Mg = 1270

So I added a little of each, waited an hour and restested...nothing. So I added a little more and waited two hours...nothing. No change.

ALK = 4.6 meq/l
pH = 8.2

temp = 78
SG = 1.025

N's - 0
PO4 = .05

Any suggestions?

 

[rchan11]

i know alkalinity does a great deal with the solubality of calcium and magnesium. throw in some baking powder and see what happens!

 

[rchan11]

nm, im not sure how meq/l translates to dkh.

 

[j0tca]

Um,

My first suggestion is to go to the Reef Chemistry Forum and read Randy's articles. This is a complicated question.

Randy will help you out far more than I can here.

Not to be rude, but please don't follow rchan's suggestion. Adding Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) when your alkalinity is high (above 4.0 meq/l) will cause calcium carbonate to precipiate out of the water only worsening your problem.

Basically what you will be trying to to do will be to raise your calcium by Cacl2 (calcium chloride) and then raiseing your alkalinity AFTERWARDS to 4.0 meq/l.

Using balanced additive's (limewater, claclium reactor, two part additives) will not help you here. You need to and Calcium seperate of carbonates first, and then adjust.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

this is a great artticle to start with. It will help you step by step.

HTH
Will

 

[drock59]

that is not good advise. You should us washing soda or baked baking soda and maybe take a look at the reef chemistry forum.

 

[j0tca]

rchan,

Welcome to ReefCentral!!!!!

The calcium, alkalinity question is one of the most complicated questions all us reefers are faced with.

Alkalinity has nothing and everything to do with the solubility of calcium. It does not directly effect to solubility, but caclium precipitates out of water by forming calcium carbonate (corals grow by forming this on their tissue) We use alkalinity as a measure of the level of carbonate and bi-carbonate in our water. The important thing between carbonates and calcium is balance. Too much of one relative to the other causes a disaster, throwing in baking soda is not a good idea, although at one point you'll be doing just that, you just need to know how much!

Start reading, ask questions and above all Happy Reefing!

Will

 

[Sindjin]

I read thru Randy's articles. Wow... great info!
I have been using KENT ph/dkh buffer which have lead to my problem.
In the am, I will so a 15% water change and go from there.
Any other suggestions would still be appreciated. Thanks all!

 

[mg426]

Multily meg/l by 2.8 to get dkh.Look up www.ozreef.com they have a conversion table that is great.Also no baking soda at that alk. bad things will happen. and go slow as this is a tricky thing to get a handle on. your mag seems fine.mabe try another test kit

 

[Sindjin]

This mornings test results:

Ca = 350
Mg = 1220
Alk = 4.11 meq/l or 11.5 dkh

I added a little more Mg and Ca.
I think Im also going to do a small water change today.....although I just did one Thursday.

 

[j0tca]

Water changes are helpful but not neccessary for what you're doing. I would keep adding kents (which is about 11% Cacl2 by memory) until you have reached your Ca goal. I have in the past added up 200ppm in a single dose with almost no adverse effects although I wouldn't suggest doing it, don't worry about increasing your Ca by 30-40ppm/day.

Also, don't worry about your alk dropping slightly. This just seems to happen with Ca addition. Alk changes much more quickley than Ca. Focus on your Ca first, then worry about your Alk.

Also don't be shy about reposting this in the reef chemistry forum, Randy is always aroud to help and really knows his stuff.

 

[Sindjin]

Thanks! I did post it in the Chemistry forum and as always, Randy was right their willing to help. What an asset to RC! I added more KENT LIQUID CALCIUM but havent seen a rise past 350. Im a bit nervous about dumping in half a cup full when the directions read 2 capfuls a day.

 

[ddenham]

Liquid Calcium is simply calcium chloride and water, kind of a weakish solution IMO. If you want to raise 120g 70-80 ppm that would seem to take a good bit of liquid CA. Did you check out the reef chemistry caluclator ? It makes it really easy to balance out Alk & Ca

 

[Sindjin]

I used another Calculator Randy showed me.
I am adding what I have (KENT) dor now.
Supposedly I need to add 397.4 ml of KENT LIQ CALCIUM
to raise my level from 350 to 420. That does seem like a lot.
So far I have added about 150ml since last nite and I havent seen a thing happen yet.

 

[Sindjin]

Success!

My Ca is now at 420. Hopefully it wasnt too drastic of an increase.
I will monitor it and see how it goes.

I am going to make up Randy's 2 part system... I picked up Dowflake and Baking Soda. I need epsom salt and some 1 gallon jugs, but this will be the way to go!

 

[rdmpe]

Glad you got it straightened out! Where did you find the dowflake at? I think it is pretty much the same stuff sold at swimming pool supply stores to rase the CA in pools. I'm going to be looking into that soon as I plan to make my own two part as well.

 

[Sindjin]

I got mine at Pinch-A-Penny. $26.99 for the 50lb bag.

Im gonna keep monitoring it of course. But at least I got the levels up. Amazing what a few SPS frags can do!

 

[j0tca]

Congrats on your success. I'de suggest monitoring it for a little while closely to see what your tanks demands are. Once you figure out your tanks needs, it's simple to keep adding regularily without worry.