Calcium Reactor vs. Two-part System

[jdieck]

Re: Calculating your cost

Re: Calculating your cost

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10105024#post10105024 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
I see some posts trying to compare costs, for a proper comparison the initial setup cost shall be tied with the on going operational cost and media consumption.
I will suggest the following to approximate a cost comparison:

a) Determine your setup cost (do not forget to add shipping and handling)
b) Assuming your setup shall last at least five years determine the annual cost dividing a above by five
c) determine your alkalinity consumption
d) Use the chart below as a guideline to determine the annual ongoing cost of your supplementation system. (Calcium reactor include CO2 and Power)
e) Add the ongoing annual cost to the initial setup cost and compare.
f) Add to the equation whatever your feelings are regarding convenience, risk and such and make your move and enjoy your new toys!

Please note that the above costs in the chart are for a 120 gal system.
For your system calculation in (d) above please divide the cost in the chart by 120 and multiply it by the total volume in your system.

 

[reef165]

besides cost, my tank never looked so good nore did i ever have the growth i got untill i added a calreactor. imo the stability a reactor gives you once settup keeps the corals happier

 

[Scuba Dog]

Just decide what your calcium and alk demand will be. Another factor to consider is will you be upgrading to a larger system in the future.

I have a 500 gallon system, and I prefer my reactor and top off via kalk. Its the only way I can keep up with the calcium demand.

I also work over a thousand hours of overtime each year, so I prefer automation. I don't have time for tedious tasks when relighable tools can do the job for me.

Working in a chemical plant I am exposed to some pretty techy equipment, reactors, chillers, friqs, heat exchangers, hot oil units, massive pumps, level control, tempature control valves, all controled from a central computer. IK wrote all that to say that a calcium reactor is a really simple unit.

A vessel thats ph controled and a means of pumping salt water in one end and drips out the other. I would go with a dual chamber design, and I would drip the effulent into the refugium, the macro algae would appreciate the co2.

A properly designed tank goes a longway of the lifespan of the system. All of my twin 180s has redundant drans. An oversized sump, and bipased plumbing that way if a pump fails all I have to do is open or close a valve and the tanks can operate off of a single sump return pump.

So in summary decide what your tanks needs are and your lifestyle is. Also are you mechanicly inclined? Are you comfortable with technology? Me I work around dangerous chemicals that can easily kill me or cause serious burns. I am also complety comfortable with the equipment that Use...so a calcium reactor is the right fit for me....and if there is a problem it's usually an real easy fix....changing media , properly installing the flanges, priming the lines, and replacing lines that get pluged from an algae build up.

On the other hand you could use two pumps and drip part A and Part B into the sump. The only real concern would be matching the drip rates from the two different pumps but Im sure the difference would be minimal. Who knows maybe some time ill be using all three methods to keep up with my tanks calcium demand.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10115176#post10115176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Scuba Dog
.... I would drip the effulent into the refugium, the macro algae would appreciate the co2.....

An excellent alternative to dripping by the skimmer and because the refugium is usually at a higher level than the sump that will help prevent inverted "U" shapes in the effluent line to avoid trapped bubbles in the line that will make effluent flow unstable.

 

[lapizzaro]

I have been following the thread and I have a question. If you are planning to have a 300 gal mixed Reef a 150 gallon refugium, a 50 frag tank and 100 gallon sump do you dose the amount needed or get a Calcium reactor rated for 350 gal ( the gallons for the display) or do you get it for the entire 600 gallons?

Thanks

 

[vic8361]

I have run both and perfer Randys two part all the way.

Vic

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10116518#post10116518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lapizzaro
I have been following the thread and I have a question. If you are planning to have a 300 gal mixed Reef a 150 gallon refugium, a 50 frag tank and 100 gallon sump do you dose the amount needed or get a Calcium reactor rated for 350 gal ( the gallons for the display) or do you get it for the entire 600 gallons?

Thanks

Lets see some comparisons:
A mixed tank system with 600 gals consuming a typical 0.5 to 1.0 meq/lt per day (1.4 to 2.8 dKh) depending on the portion of sps in the mix will approximately require either.

a) One gallon each of Calcium and Alkalinity DIY recipe 1 every 3 to 6 days

b) One gallon each of Calcium and Alkalinity DIY recipe 2 every 1-1/2 to 3 days

c) 7.5 to 15 gallons of saturated Lime (Kalk) solution per day which may not be possible due to limit in evaporation amount.

d) Consume the equivalent of about one pound of calcium reactor media every 4 to 8 days.

IMO I would supplement evaporation with Kalk (around 4 to 6 gal per day if using a chiller) and get a calcium reactor with a capacity for about 20 pounds of media in main chamber one.

 

[Zach117]

Here are my experiences/

I have a 125gal tank with about 20 small SPS frags and a few that are small colonies.

I dose saturated Kalk in my topoff through the Litermeter 3 because that is all I require, saturated might be too much b/c calicum was at 450 alk was at 9.6 dKh last time I checked.

My problem is at lights off the ph is at its highest often reaching 8.3.+ I have my litermeter plugged into my controller and it shuts the litermeter down at 8.3 This is a problem b/c it is also my top off water and the litermeter is set to dose so much over a 24 hour period and that messes with my evaporation rate.

Should I just switch to the 2-part with washed soda so it will not effect ph? The only other way I could think would be to put it on a timer to only dose the Kalk at night but jdieck said that is a no-no. I would like to solve this with Kalk since it is easier and it is satisfying my calcium needs currently even though that might not be the case in the future. Maybe just less Kalk since my calcium is high?

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10118196#post10118196 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zach117
.. The only other way I could think would be to put it on a timer to only dose the Kalk at night but jdieck said that is a no-no.... ?

Zach:

I might have been missunderstood. Actually I dose Kalk at night via a litermeter. It usually starts a couple of hours after light go off and continue for a couple of hours after lights go on.
Because you will have to increase the volume during time ON to compensate for the volume during time OFF, just insure that the PH does not go too high with the increased rate.

Say, if now you have the liter meter adjusted for 5 liters per day in 24 hours and will change to dose for 12 hours then you will need to adjust it for 10 liters per day to end up adding the smame 5 liters every day. If it will work 16 hours instead of 12 then you need to adjust it to 7.5 liters (5X24/16)
You can use the controller to turn it on and off at the required times, the good thing about the litermeter is that it does not loose the programing or calibration if powered off. If you are using a Neptune just connect the power adapter of the litermeter to one of the direct connect plugs (or X-10 module) and program it accordingly.
You can still have the instruction to shut it off if the PH goes too high.

 

[Zach117]

I use a reefkeeper 2 and I am not sure if you can do a timer and ph control on the same channel but I will check. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10119117#post10119117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zach117
I use a reefkeeper 2 and I am not sure if you can do a timer and ph control on the same channel but I will check. Thanks for the clarification.

If that is the case then just set up litermeter on a timer. If you target a somehow lower alkalinity (Say 8 dKh) you can set up the cut off of the PH a little higher (8.4)

 

[melev]

This thread has been nominated for Thread of the Month! (ThOTM) Click here to vote for it to win.

 

[MJAnderson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10118636#post10118636 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
Zach:

I might have been missunderstood. Actually I dose Kalk at night via a litermeter. It usually starts a couple of hours after light go off and continue for a couple of hours after lights go on.
Because you will have to increase the volume during time ON to compensate for the volume during time OFF, just insure that the PH does not go too high with the increased rate.

If you're using a Neptune controller (like me) you can dose at night but set it up so that it won't does for more than X minutes per hour, no matter what the ATO says. Mine is "allowed" to does an hour after lights go off through an hour after they go back on, for 15 minutes an hour to keep my PH from spiking too much. Not sure if that's any better or worse than just leaving it on all night and fudging the flow on the Litermeter. I use a different dosing pump.

 

[LuisC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10214566#post10214566 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
This thread has been nominated for Thread of the Month! (ThOTM) Click here to vote for it to win.

LOL...

 

[Rovert]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10214566#post10214566 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
This thread has been nominated for Thread of the Month! (ThOTM) Click here to vote for it to win.

Maintaining my reputation for makin' trouble wherever I go.

 

[acliao]

I am also debating to either get the automated 2-part system or the Reactor. I have seen the pictures of successfully kept SPS tank with Reactors. Can anyone share their successful pictures/stories using 2-part system only? thank you.

 

[UrbanSage]

acliao
Either method will have followers.
People aren't debating what works and what doesn't. Both will work great.

 

[Rovert]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10234461#post10234461 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by UrbanSage
acliao
Either method will have followers.
People aren't debating what works and what doesn't. Both will work great.

True enough. We are, however, debating which might work better both in general terms, and per each type of user, as well as the relative merits of each strategy.

For my part, I went with a Korallin 1502, and in the span of even just a couple weeks, my coralline algae has exploded. Frags are growing faster than ever, and they're even more colorful. I also like the idea that no additional supplements like Mg or Sr are necessary, as they're supplied by the reactor media in their requisite proportions.

I'm not suggesting this wouldn't have happened with a 2-part system, but what I do know for a fact is that if I continued to dose with B-Ionic, it would have cost a fortune. Granted the DIY version is significantly less expensive, but that has a cost attached to it, too, in terms of time, convenience and over the long term for supplies.

Reactors aren't for everybody, though. Some folks have smaller tanks, less room to work with, a slimmer budget, or just don't want to deal with hardware.

I'll never set up another tank without one or the other, but based on even just the past week, I far prefer the reactor, for the convenience of it. I'd already have had to mix up at least two batches of 2 part to maintain my tank. This is far easier for me.

 

[fishdoc11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10234938#post10234938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rovert
I'd already have had to mix up at least two batches of 2 part to maintain my tank.

You must be thinking about micro batches. A "batch" (which consists of 3 gallons of each for me) lasts me ~ 4 months on my very crowded 120.

Chris

 

[Rovert]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10235194#post10235194 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishdoc11
You must be thinking about micro batches. A "batch" (which consists of 3 gallons of each for me) lasts me ~ 4 months on my very crowded 120.

Chris

Heh...

Crowded with what, though? A tank full of leathers isn't quite so demanding as a tank full of stonies and clams.

You do raise a good point. Out of curiosity, how much alk does your tank consume per day in dKH? I'd have gone that route, but it wasn't an option for me.

My problem was one of space. I didn't have room for even a "micro" batch of 3 gallons (times two of them) to fit under my tank. The reactor and co2 canister do fit nicely, though, which was another significant factor in the decision.

Believe me, the last thing I wanted to do was to shell out $340 for a pre-owned Korallin 1502 setup, but the alternatives were even less attractive.