Calcium Reactors - Drip rate and ph level?

jay24k

jay24k

Active member
I was wondering if I could get some feedback on what you guys are running on your calcium reactor. It appears I'm having some issues keeping up as of late. Perhaps it is the big growth spurt I'm having. I switched to Schuran because ARM got all dirty on me and about 4 inches of it decided to fly up in my reactor as one packed item. How annoying.

I'm not sure on my effluent but it is a steady stream coming out and my ph is about 6.4 coming out of the reactor. I'm having issues keeping my alk above 6.5 but my calcium is about 380. Should I drop the ph to 6.2 or increase the effluent coming out?

What are you guys running. Please give size of tank and type oc tank (Mainly SPS, or LPS, etc).

Thanks
 
By your description it seems to me you may have exceeded the capacity of the reactor.
I would not recommend a PH lower than 6.5 so try increasing the effluent (Which may lower your tank PH a bit more), if still you are not able to keep the tank alkalinity or your tank PH drops too much then you may need a larger reactor.

This may help:
http://jdieck.home.comcast.net/reactor.html
 
Well I read here the Schuran media should be at least 6.3 if not lower for that media. Is this the case? When I bought this, I was told it would easily handle a 180 gallon stocked sps tank. Its a 6x18 inch chamber.
 
I went through something similar about a month ago.on the norm i test about once a week.one week the tank was fine the next the alk had dropped from 9dkh to 7dkh.And it was during that time i could see notible almost daily growth on a few acros + an explosion in coraline.Not really sure what happened as nothing i did changed.But i did bump my co2 from 30dpm to 35 and just adding Randy alk reciepe every day during this time, it lasted a few weeks then every thing just went back to normal.(altho i've not had to turn the co2 back either)
Thinking back, it did really start to cool off here temp wise,During the summer tank is about 79-80 lately its been 77-79 in the tank, so not sure if the few degree drop in the tank had anything to do with it.
 
Over the years I have learned that the capacity rating for reactors (As well as for skimmer) have to be taken with a grain of salt.
Most ratings are done in lightly stocked aquariums. I am using a reactor rated for 1500 gallons in my 300 gal system and just barely making it as it is loaded with fast growing acros and clams.

Regarding mushing the media the low level of PH it can take depends on the size of the media and how easy it is to dissolve.
Aragonite dissolves rather easy so below 6.5 it will form a lot of fine dust that may plug parts of your recirculation or tubings. The Shuran media being larger pieces may take a bit more abuse. I use a similar media (Gen-X) and some pieces really dissolve into dust at below 6.5 but you will loose nothing by trying to go lower.

In any case the issue with going lower is not only the dissolution into mud but also has to do with the form of alkalinity.
The carbonate alkalinity is an addition of three components: Carbonic Acid, Bicarbonate and Carbonate. The three forms coexist and their proportion to each other depends on the PH.
At a PH say of 8.3 most of it is in the form of Bicarbonate (around 90 to 95% and the rest is Carbonate with very litle to none carbonic acid. At a PH of around 6.5 50% of it is carbonic acid and the other 50% is bicarbonate and almost none carbonate. This is important in the sense that the lower the PH the larger the proportion of Carbonic Acid which is what keeps the water in the reactor saturated with alaklinity and Calcium ions but also lowers the PH in your aquarium.
If your tank can take the lowereing effect and still maintain above 8.0 then you can try lowering the PH further.
In any case note that there is an additional limiting factor of diminishing returns. There is a point where further reductions in PH will achieve less incremental dissolution. This effect is caused by the limitation in the time of exposure. No matter how acidic the water becomes if there is not enough time for the dissolution to ocurr the acidified water will just go out in the form of effluent.

Shuran media being larger pieces exposes less area to the water which reduces the dissolution amount, this effect is compensated by the increase in recirculation flow (more water turns) by the media presenting less resistance to the water flow up to the capacity of the recirculation pump. If you find out that the alkalinity of the effluent does no longer increases with further decreases in PH for a given effluent flow then you are maxed up in PH lowering for that particular flow. As you increase the effluent flow the PH increases, increase the bubble rate to lower the PH again thus increasing the alkalinity of the effluent back up. This adjustment is possible until the effluent flow is high enough that there is not enough contact time and no mater how much you lower the PH the alkalinity of the effluent will no longer increase. I have found out by experimentation that for relatively large reactors (6" by 24 high) this effect happens at about an effluent flow range from 135 to 150 ml/min and a PH of 6.4 to 6.5

In summary you can experiment to achive the optimum, the limits will be defined by a combination of three factors: PH in the reactor, Effluent flow and PH in the main tank.
 
I had to stop using ARM in my reverse flow (bottom to top) reactors (korallin) because it would clog the valves and pumps. This happened when the media would get so small it would be carried by the water into the pump or the effluent. When the effluent got clogged the CO2 would build up in the reactor and form pockets in the media, making things worse. Now I use the medium or large size coralith media. I don't measure the reactor pH much. I go by the effluent alkalinity. Try to aim for an effluent Alk. around 3X that of the tank Alk. Jay24K, what kind of reactor are you using? Also, what it the pH of your aquarium.

Justin
 
I run my schuran media at 6.3 inside the reactor, 60 drips per second, 20 bubbles per minute. I let it drip where the drain drops into my sump to blow out the co2. I drip kalk in my topoff to offset the ph. My ph is always 8.3, calcium 440, dkh at 9, mag 1380
 
It is a reactor from aquaticsystemdesign.com. It's an upflow reactor and appears to be effecient. My tank ph is 8.1 to 8.2. It's been this prior and after adding a reactor. I'll have to measure my effluent and I guess test the alkilinity of it. I don't have it wide open but a steady stream does come out. If I slow it down, it will start a very fast drip. I'm assuming someone in there 60 to 80 ml per minute range. I use a controller so I set my bubble count to something like 120 per minute.
 
may seem stupid but ...

Check your magnesium levels My reactor was not keeping up with my tank and I was surprised to see my mg++ was very low most of the media out there (including ARM) dont replace enough mg.

I hope this helps if not no harm no foul and one less thing on the checklist.
good luck Jay
Brian
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8092707#post8092707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jay24k
It is a reactor from aquaticsystemdesign.com. It's an upflow reactor and appears to be effecient. My tank ph is 8.1 to 8.2. It's been this prior and after adding a reactor. I'll have to measure my effluent and I guess test the alkilinity of it. I don't have it wide open but a steady stream does come out. If I slow it down, it will start a very fast drip. I'm assuming someone in there 60 to 80 ml per minute range. I use a controller so I set my bubble count to something like 120 per minute.
Click to expand...
Jay, need to get more familiar with what is going on with your reactor and how is it performing.
What is the setting turn on / turn off PH settings?
What is your effluent flow? Use a measuring cup and a stop watch to measure it in ml/min.
What is the alkalinity of the effluent?
 
Thanks Jdieck, I'll get the exact numbers. What you said makes sense before. I actually have time this evening to do some maintenance so I'll get these numbers here in a few.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions or possible reasons.
 
I use tank ALK to set my reactor .
I only check ph inside my Deltec 601 Calcium reactor when i first use it . I use the reactor 24/7 at steady 90Ml of outflow a minutes with about 100BPM of CO2
i use Deltec media .
My ALK is about 11 DKH and calcium at 420-440.
Some times the calcium get lower after i do a water change with IO salt so i add some TC in the tank.
I find out after using reactors for over ten years when you first set it up you need to check everything but after two or three weeks i can tell you i have no need to check anything but the tank ALK i then adjust the reactor accordingly.
We can give you all the number we have but you need to do the adjustmens on your reactor no one knows how much alk and calcium you need .
I will start with no lower than 6.5 Ph in the reactor outflow for now get a broken stream outflow water from the reactor and check the tank alk every day if is to high cut the CO2 some if to low give it some CO2 . If the reactor is big enougf you don't need to go any lower than 6.5 PH at the reactor outflow.
I never had any mush on any of my reactors even with ARM media i never let the reactor outflow to get lower than 6.5 .
The new large media eventuality will get smaller and smaller as it melts in your reactor and it will go to powder state.
The smaller media has more surfise area so it will melt much easier than the larger one.
I don't like the large media it reacquires to much CO2 to melt it and your tank PH will get lower and lower so now you need Kalk reactor to balance it out not a ending story.
so you need to do some reef work:D
 
I went to go check and it appears my ml/min was extremely fast. Yesterday, my sump ran out of water and my maxijet 1200 feed pump to the reactor locked up. I messed with the dial to open it up because I didn't think it was the pump that was not running.

Anyway, I dialed it back in to where it normally sits; a steady stream right after the drip drip stops. It is at 80 ml / minute. Ph of the reactor is 6.3 and usually will kick on around 6.4 to 6.5 (milwaukee controller). I don't know if because the stream was set to so high and the ph was 6.6 if that can affect the alk of the drip. I tested it and it was at 6.6. Alk of the tank is about 6.8 to 7. I don't want to buffer it up till I find the reactor dialed in right.

I put the reactor back down to 6.3 with a much faster co2 drip temporarily and set the effluent like I mentioned back to 80. I waited about 2 minutes and tested the effluent and it is about 8.5 dkh.

So my question is, does it take a little while to get the media to start breaking down? I'll test it again in 20 minutes and see.
 
Zoom,

I had the reactor since January. I normally set the ph of arm media to 6.8 with a 70 ml drip. However, my growth has been insane and I have zero area to put any SPS. The ARM media mushed up on my at 6.8 once it got down far. I wouldn't say mush but if I stirred it, it was like sand and clouded my tank quickly.

I've heard good things about Schuran media with upflow reactors. However, it seems it takes FOREVER to get my ph down in the reactor. I've read it requires a ph of 6.3 which I agree is low. I have the effluent dumping into my macro algae which I think helps absorb the excess co2 as my ph hasn't fluctuated at all.

I know I'm gonna have to mess with it again with the new media but I was just wondering what everyone else was at as it seems I'm running full load.
 
Whoops! I was measuring the effluent wrong. I forgot to add 2 ml of water for the salifert test kit and only did 1. Effluent coming out is 19.6 dkh approximately.
 
Two minutes is too soon to determine the stable effluent alkalinity level, it usually takes two to four hours so you may want to test again tomorrow morning.
For the time being we need to establish a base line to start making adjustments from so try to keep it stable at PH 6.3 and 80 ml/min and test again two days from now the effluent alkalinity as well as the tank. This will be our base line to start adjusting up or down.
 
Sounds like a plan. The exiting effluent is usually around what alkilinity? If I recall, shouldn't it be pretty high up there?
 
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