Can They See Their Reflection?

Curious George

New member
I can't find a consensus on this question. Recently I did a major maintenance on my tank. In doing so, I cleaned all the algae off the glass-every side. I did a little rearrangin and created more open space.

I did this a few days and go and ever since my majestic has been frantically pacing up and down the side glass- no backing on this pane.

He really looks like he's chasing his reflection in the once algae covered glass. Could that be?

I was thinking about covering the sides with aquarium backing. Anyone know if a fish can see his reflection in the glass? Definitively?

I asked him but he is short on words.
 
Figured it out.

I added another vortec and redirected the flow towards the surface while doing the over haul. The surface agitation was freaking him out after a year of having it calmly flowing into my overflow. Put things back the way they were and he almost imediately calmed down.
 
When we first added our yellow coris wrasse, he used to beat himself up on one end of the tank during a certain part of the day, trying to kill his reflection. I put something up there for a while & he stopped. He finally learned & doesn't do it anymore.

That said, glad you figured it out & it was something else LOL.
 
Ok, I spoke to soon. Covering the sides stopped the pacing for a couple hours. Back to it. Relentlessy pacing the side glass up and down and up and down.

I am baffled. I've had this fish for a year now. I even added some more live rock to the tank and nothing. No one is bugging him. The only time he stops is to eat. Then back to it. Not breathing fast. He just seems to be aggressively pacing the glass. I feel like I've tried everything. I've left things alone for a couple days and STILL. It's driving me nuts. Everyone else in the tank is fine. Oce Clown, Midas Blenny, Chevron Tang no problems.

It's not as if he looks like he's going to croak here, but man oh man I wish he would go back to his normal routine of swimming the tank and pecking at the rocks gracefully. I've seen this in new fish and it evetually stops. I've read the sticky and searched for other experiences. In 20 years of hobbying, I've never experienced this and can't figure it out.

Anything???
 
My wrasse does this all the time. I 100% believe they can see their reflection. I work at a local aquarium, and in the main shark exhibit divers go in there daily to do maintenance. I haven't been in, but they have told me that they can see the reflections of the sharks behind them from the glass in front of them so they always know they are coming. Those tank are acrylic, I don't know if glass reflects more or less, etc. I don't know what you can do about it though. =(
 
get some goggles, a ladder, and towel. Dunk your head in upside down and find out. haha.

But in all honesty, it depends on the lighting and the way it reflects through the water... Who remembers prisms from 8th grade science.? Its all about lenses and the way that light and images travel through the water column -> glass/acrylic -> your eyes.

Heres basic info how eyesight works= Light is projected from a source (ex the sun) it is projected to an object (tree) the light bounces off the object enter the cornea (first lens in eyeball & in front of pupil aka the "dark hole") when the light mixed image enters the cornea it is inverted where it is re-projected on the back of your eye (aka retina). The retina process the combination of light, colors, shape. and sends the message through your optic nerve to the brain. The image is then processed and reverted back to the original position (aka upright position).

Now that we know that, Heres the best way i can describe light and reflections: imagine you are standing in your living room at 11pm and looking outside the sliding glass door. When the lights in the room are OFF, you can clearly see through the object (aka glass) and see things like trees, patio furniture, axe murderer. When you turn the lights ON in the room, you can no longer see said murderer, all you see is a reflection of your pretty self and everything inside the room.

Heres the science: First off- understand that our eyes, much like camera lenses will attempt to absorb as much light as possible to produce a clear image off of whatever it can. This means, you will recognize objects that are in brighter/ more intense lighting before you recognize the other less well lit objects. (Ex: when camping you see flashlights, BEFORE you can make out the body shape of the person carrying it)

Remember when we said that light REFLECTS off solid objects (the tree) and projects into our eye? well.. if there is MORE light inside than outside the glass window, your eye will first process the most intensely lit obejcts which happens to be the objects that are behind you in the room, thus a reflection is born. If the room is DARK, your eye cannot clearly process the indoor light and objects in the room, so it looks beyond the glass for the next best source of light, which is beaming from the Moon/ outdoor lights -> axe murderer-> through the glass (Remember, because there is not enough light inside) -> into your cornea, and we all know the rest.. freak out and adrenaline ensues because you have a weirdo in your backyard with an axe.

How it relates to fish tanks: If the lighting inside the tank is on, we can assume it is brighter/more intense than the lights outside the tank (ambient room lighting). Thus, we or the fish will FIRST process the objects that are better lit inside the tank. This creates a reflection... Of everything. Thats why the divers can see themselves and sharks behind them(see above post for mention). Therefore, yes when the lights are on your fish see a reflection of the tank and its inhabitants When the tank lights are off, the objects in the room are better lit, so they stand out the best, and the fish will no longer see themselves, they just see some dummy staring back at them. as well as whatever else is going on in the living room, like you picking your nose on the couch.

So why does a fish react to my finger outside the glass?
1. If the DT lights are off, he can see it clear as mud. and you just look like loser waving your finger around in the middle of a room.
2. if the tank lights are on: When you stand 4ft from the tank and wave you finger around at the tank they dont react... why? because the lighting inside the tank is more intense than the lighting on your finger. Remember, they see the most well lit objects first. However, as you press your finger on the glass (outside the tank) the lighting inside the tank is intense enough to penetrate the glass, bounce off and light up your big fat finger and still intense enough to project an image back to the fish's eye.

Super long story short: DT lights on? yes they see themselves. DT lights off? No they do not necessarily see their reflection. It just depends on the intensity of the lighting surrounding the objects.

Phew... Clear as mud?
 
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Yeah, I see what you're saying here. But I even tried to keep the lights off for a couple days and he still kept pacing up and down the side glass. It's really wierd. He does look like he's trying to get to something aggressively.

One of the things I had done is to clean the algae off of all sides of the aquarium. I think that this intensified the reflective qualities of the glass and has caused the onset of the problem. I've just never seen a fish continue to do this for so long and thought that an angel might be smart enough to figure it out sooner or later. The other other fish are fine, but this one is either horny or PI55ED.

He sure is pretty, but I guess not to well endowed upstairs in the learning department. Gosh I wish this would stop. It really takes away from the stress ease that a tank provides at the end of a long day. He's stressing me out....
 
Did you get him as a juvenile? Do you have a Qt tank you could use temporarily? Tried live food to alleviate his attention to the glass?
 
Yeah, I got him as a 1in Juvi and took him through the color change over the past year. Lot of fun there. Have had MA before, but never found one that hadn't turned. I kinda have an attachment to this fish.

I have a QT tank, but I don't want to put him through the added stress. Odd thing is, he's doing fine. Eats voraciously. He snaps out of it every once in a while. Heck, even comes to the front of the tank to see me. Then, he goes back to up and down, up and down on the side glass. He really does look like he's trying to get to his reflection.

I guess I just have to wait until algae covers the back and sides again. Not sure what else to do???
 
hmm its some sort of stress. Whether or not its the reflection, im not sure. the best thing would be to eliminate possible stress causes one by one. if your left with just the glass cleaning, then that must be the cause..

Have you checked all your water params? Including nitrite again?
 
Just put some paper or something on the glass & see if it changes things like I did in my first post here. If he's seeing a reflection but not fighting with it, then he's probably trying to get to "the rest of the tank" that he's seeing. If it doesn't work, then you stressed him out by moving established territory around. You can't just sit around waiting for him to "figure it out" like he's a person while he stresses himself to death.

We had a goby for a year that all he ever did was pace looking for a better home/way out of the tank. All his waking moments were spent pacing except when he ate. He was fat, but clearly not "happy". Came home one day & he was dead against the powerhead, fat & not a mark on him. Best we could figure is he wore himself out or killed himself on the canopy trying to get out.

Nitrite is not harmful in saltwater unless it's in amounts larger than our test kits record. Checking nitrite is basically for the benefit of seeing whether proper bacteria is present to convert ammonia to nitrates. I'd be checking ammonia & nitrates or for metals of some kind if I were woried about the water. Seems more like reflection stress to me, or he's going through a stage in his life where he wants more space.
 
He's in a 180 and 3-4 inches long. He is in with 3 other fish and a fair amount of live rock. I tried covering the side glass and it worked temporarily, but then went back to pacing. I have rearranged rock and no one has been giving him a hard time in the tank. I checked the water parameters several times (Amm, Trate, Trite, Temp, SG, even copper) over the past couple weeks.

I see your point that I can't just expect him to just stop, but I have exhausted all probable courses of action at this point. Short of getting an acrylic tank or getting some algae growth to cover the inside of the glass, I am out of ideas. Covering the outside still seemed like it allows for a reflection on the inside. Shoot, I messed with the flow in the tank as well a couple times. And still, he eats just fine. Is there an Aquatic Psychiatrist in the house?

?
 
Ok, reporting back. I think I've had success here. I covered the side of the tank that he was pacing up and down at with white paper. See, the last time I tried this with a glossy black tank background. He kept pacing up and down so I figured it wasn't a reflection. As a last ditch effort I thought, let me try some plain white paper taped to the glass.

That did it. He is back to his normal self swimming calming in and out of the rocks looking for food. So, it is definitive, a fish can in fact see their reflection from the inside on clean glass. Granted, it might be just a colored glare, but they can see that. After cleaning the algae off of the glass during a big maintenance job, I enhanced the reflective qualities of the pane. He had experienced algae covered glass for about a year and is now a frisky adult. That must have set off a panic and agression. No reflection and no problems.

I am thrilled my majestic is back to his normal calm self. Wheew. Rough couple weeks with this.
 
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