Shaker nemo
New member
Keep us updated. Why don't you take the Xenia out? If there are more corals on same rock as the Xenia you can always chisel it out.
Can Xenia crash a system?
- Thread starter el_pinguino
- Start date
el_pinguino
New member
The reason I can't easily take rocks out is because the tank is closed on top with just a small opening (similar to Fluval Edge). It is very restrictive when trying to work in the tank. And it was a pain trying to fit my large rocks in there in the first place.
When I'm ready to upgrade, my next tank will definitely be different.
I didn't do much this week. I'm working 13-hour days until Friday. So hopefully everything will be okay on its own until the weekend.
When I'm ready to upgrade, my next tank will definitely be different.
I didn't do much this week. I'm working 13-hour days until Friday. So hopefully everything will be okay on its own until the weekend.
glstine1966
New member
Just wanted to share, I had the same thing happen to me a number of years ago, caused me to get out of reef keeping for a while. 29 gallon reef, don't remember all live stock but had an awesome frogspawn that had grown huge and xenia, that had spread all over much of the tank. Everything was great until one day the xenia melted away and crashed the entire tank. I was devastated over the loss of the frogspawn. I will never have xenia again.
Dapg8gt
New member
Are you positive nothing got dropped into the tank?
The recent cyano blooms leads me to think of "old tank syndrome" where the sand bed starts crashing and taking everything with it.. I have a 12+ year old tank that was having similar cyano issues and what I did was remove a lot of the lower levels of sand. I had 4" in some places and 2 in others.. Over the course of a month or 2 I got it down to about 2". That along with a membrane change on my Rodi and I've been cyano free for a few months.
I was battling it for about a year fwiw.. I didn't have any deaths though my nitrates were higher than I liked other than that all the #'s were in line as usual.. The lower levels of my sand bed were not touched since the tank was set up and since removal my tank has got its vigor back and is going strong as before . it was funky looking but didn't have the described H2s smell most attribute with aging sand beds. . That's just my thoughts but I d look into the sand bed if it's deeper than 2" and not maintained.. Than again could have just been my membrane letting ammonia or something by causing the cyano but never the less my tank is rocking again just in time to finally get swapped over to the new Diggs..
In my experience xenia don't just up and die for no reason there's usually a pre cursor to it. Usually it's the opposite if everything is good they grow to plague like proportions. I have some in my frag tank in the fuge and they start to look like crap when my nutrients are too low.. I would just to be sure throw some poly filter in the filter to see if there is any heavy metals( coral symptoms could be copper related) also you never know if something accidentally dropped in it or the fish store has brass fittings that are new.. Good luck hope it turns back to the great tank you know..
The recent cyano blooms leads me to think of "old tank syndrome" where the sand bed starts crashing and taking everything with it.. I have a 12+ year old tank that was having similar cyano issues and what I did was remove a lot of the lower levels of sand. I had 4" in some places and 2 in others.. Over the course of a month or 2 I got it down to about 2". That along with a membrane change on my Rodi and I've been cyano free for a few months.
I was battling it for about a year fwiw.. I didn't have any deaths though my nitrates were higher than I liked other than that all the #'s were in line as usual.. The lower levels of my sand bed were not touched since the tank was set up and since removal my tank has got its vigor back and is going strong as before . it was funky looking but didn't have the described H2s smell most attribute with aging sand beds. . That's just my thoughts but I d look into the sand bed if it's deeper than 2" and not maintained.. Than again could have just been my membrane letting ammonia or something by causing the cyano but never the less my tank is rocking again just in time to finally get swapped over to the new Diggs..
In my experience xenia don't just up and die for no reason there's usually a pre cursor to it. Usually it's the opposite if everything is good they grow to plague like proportions. I have some in my frag tank in the fuge and they start to look like crap when my nutrients are too low.. I would just to be sure throw some poly filter in the filter to see if there is any heavy metals( coral symptoms could be copper related) also you never know if something accidentally dropped in it or the fish store has brass fittings that are new.. Good luck hope it turns back to the great tank you know..
el_pinguino
New member
I can't seem to shake this cyano.
I don't have any reason to believe something fell in the tank, but I can't rule it out either. My sandbed is shallow (averages 1") so I don't think there is a substantial anaerobic layer to remove. It is an old tank, so "old tank syndrome" sounds right, but I haven't been able find a definition or any consensus about possible causes for this condition.
I'm going to try removing the GFO. I have been using about 5 times the recommended amount. Maybe the cyano is out of control because it is able to out compete everything else for what little phosphorous remains. Maybe I can restore some balance this way.
Here are a couple photos I took yesterday besides older photos of the same locations.
I don't have any reason to believe something fell in the tank, but I can't rule it out either. My sandbed is shallow (averages 1") so I don't think there is a substantial anaerobic layer to remove. It is an old tank, so "old tank syndrome" sounds right, but I haven't been able find a definition or any consensus about possible causes for this condition.
I'm going to try removing the GFO. I have been using about 5 times the recommended amount. Maybe the cyano is out of control because it is able to out compete everything else for what little phosphorous remains. Maybe I can restore some balance this way.
Here are a couple photos I took yesterday besides older photos of the same locations.
SavingOurSeas
New member
Experiences like this make me wish the whole thing could be heavily documented.
One day I would like to see "OTS" and system crashes a thing of the past.
I wish you the best of luck in returning your system to it's prior vigor.
I'm definitely in high hopes for you!
One day I would like to see "OTS" and system crashes a thing of the past.
I wish you the best of luck in returning your system to it's prior vigor.
I'm definitely in high hopes for you!
StinkyBunny
New member
When you do water changed vacuum up as much of the Xenia glop as possible. Xenia are great nitrate and phosphate sinks and when they die, they release it back into the system.
HurricaneSystem
Member
I don't think the xenia crashed your system. It looks like a lot of those corals are frags in the picture you posted. Possible that you added a lot of livestock and have a high ammonia level? Your water looks a bit cloudy like high ammonia or tap water.
el_pinguino
New member
Quick update:
Ammonia and Nitrates are 0. LFS test agrees with my Salifert tests.
The water is crystal clear. There was just a hazy film on the outside of the acrylic when I took those pictures.
I don't feed my corals. Nutrient import/export hasn't changed.
I think my sandbed is leaching phosphates like crazy. I'm siphoning out the cyano about once a week, but it comes back within 2-3 days. I blow it off the corals with a turkey baster in between siphonings.
Removing the GFO helped. When I tried putting it back, the cyano came back faster and thicker. Apparently, this phenomenon is not uncommon.
Ammonia and Nitrates are 0. LFS test agrees with my Salifert tests.
The water is crystal clear. There was just a hazy film on the outside of the acrylic when I took those pictures.
I don't feed my corals. Nutrient import/export hasn't changed.
I think my sandbed is leaching phosphates like crazy. I'm siphoning out the cyano about once a week, but it comes back within 2-3 days. I blow it off the corals with a turkey baster in between siphonings.
Removing the GFO helped. When I tried putting it back, the cyano came back faster and thicker. Apparently, this phenomenon is not uncommon.
Chris Abbott
New member
Why not remove the old sand and Replace it altogether?
FWIW, I had something similar happen to my tank. Actually, along exactly the same thing. I bought a used 175 full of Xenia and other softies. I used the old sand and rock when I set it back up. Slowly the Xenia melted away, then came terrible cyano until I shut it down. It sucks.
I wanted to share my theory of what happened and "OTS". First, for whatever reason, dying Xenia has something cyano loves. I say this because of the issues in the 175 I had PLUS I have a 12g nano that serves as qt with a few stalks of Xenia. I've noticed my Xenia I this tank has shrunk quite a bit for whatever reason and I have a couple of patches of cyano. The growth of the cyano and shrinking of the Xenia has been a noticeable trend. The more Xenia I lose, the more cyano I get. I've had other corals die and melt away but none that caused massive cyano outbreaks. I really think it's possible that the Xenia releases some other toxin or chemical that feeds the cyano, so it not just a phosphate problem. Again, this is just my opinion from observations in my tanks.
Regarding "OTS", I think that both liverock and sand are "sponges". Slowly over a long period of time, both absorb phosphate (and probably other contaminants too). At some point there's no more room for phosphate so they start leeching phosphates on top of what you're adding with feedings. One thing I want to do moving forward is replace my sand bed slowly over time. Everytime I do a water change, I suck out some substrate. When it starts getting nearly empty, I'll slowly start adding new sand. With live rock it's not as easy. However, I'm thinking about occasional taking a base rock (any rock with no coral attached) out of the system and replace it with a rock that had been cleaned by being soaked in bleach and them in muriatic acid and dried. The old rock will have the same thing done and get a "bath". So in other words, I'll always have freshly cleaned rock being rotated in and out of the system. The acid should pull out most bound up phosphates. I'm hoping this method may prevent me from ever having to deal with old tank syndrome.
It may be a crazy idea, but it makes perfect sense to me so I want to try. Good luck with the cyano battle. I know it's a real pita.
I wanted to share my theory of what happened and "OTS". First, for whatever reason, dying Xenia has something cyano loves. I say this because of the issues in the 175 I had PLUS I have a 12g nano that serves as qt with a few stalks of Xenia. I've noticed my Xenia I this tank has shrunk quite a bit for whatever reason and I have a couple of patches of cyano. The growth of the cyano and shrinking of the Xenia has been a noticeable trend. The more Xenia I lose, the more cyano I get. I've had other corals die and melt away but none that caused massive cyano outbreaks. I really think it's possible that the Xenia releases some other toxin or chemical that feeds the cyano, so it not just a phosphate problem. Again, this is just my opinion from observations in my tanks.
Regarding "OTS", I think that both liverock and sand are "sponges". Slowly over a long period of time, both absorb phosphate (and probably other contaminants too). At some point there's no more room for phosphate so they start leeching phosphates on top of what you're adding with feedings. One thing I want to do moving forward is replace my sand bed slowly over time. Everytime I do a water change, I suck out some substrate. When it starts getting nearly empty, I'll slowly start adding new sand. With live rock it's not as easy. However, I'm thinking about occasional taking a base rock (any rock with no coral attached) out of the system and replace it with a rock that had been cleaned by being soaked in bleach and them in muriatic acid and dried. The old rock will have the same thing done and get a "bath". So in other words, I'll always have freshly cleaned rock being rotated in and out of the system. The acid should pull out most bound up phosphates. I'm hoping this method may prevent me from ever having to deal with old tank syndrome.
It may be a crazy idea, but it makes perfect sense to me so I want to try. Good luck with the cyano battle. I know it's a real pita.
peacetypes6
New member
dip your zoas in bayer complete insect killer with a 10oz of bayer and 4 cups water
Russell F
New member
I've heard of 'Xenia' filters before where you would use it as nutrient export. I. Had it crash in a 75 I had and it does release a lot when it dies. After the initial die off tho the tank bounced back, but I had 100 gallons of volume on that system. I would vacuum the sand if you don't replace it.
el_pinguino
New member
It has been about 10 days since I gave up.
My sand bed was working against me. It had become toxic. What was once a thriving habitat for various copepods, worms, and other microorganisms had become completely barren. No amount of protein skimming, water changes, siphoning, or activated carbon made any improvement. I even tried dosing bottled beneficial bacteria.
I set up a replacement tank, filled it with water, then added a heater and powerhead. When the temperature and salinity matched, I began to transfer my refugees starting with the fish - everything except the sand. I moved the rocks last for fear of disturbing any anaerobic regions. The sand did not look horrible, but the smell was overwhelming. As I scooped it out into the waste bin, the bottom layer of sand was in a soup of brown sludge.
So now I have a bare-bottom nano tank. And I prefer it this way. The corals began to recover almost immediately. I don't think I will be considering another substrate any time soon.
My sand bed was working against me. It had become toxic. What was once a thriving habitat for various copepods, worms, and other microorganisms had become completely barren. No amount of protein skimming, water changes, siphoning, or activated carbon made any improvement. I even tried dosing bottled beneficial bacteria.
I set up a replacement tank, filled it with water, then added a heater and powerhead. When the temperature and salinity matched, I began to transfer my refugees starting with the fish - everything except the sand. I moved the rocks last for fear of disturbing any anaerobic regions. The sand did not look horrible, but the smell was overwhelming. As I scooped it out into the waste bin, the bottom layer of sand was in a soup of brown sludge.
So now I have a bare-bottom nano tank. And I prefer it this way. The corals began to recover almost immediately. I don't think I will be considering another substrate any time soon.
el_pinguino
New member
Yeah, I thought of that. No stray current. And I'm still using the same equipment.
