Canister Filtration

[santom]

Hello everyone, this is my first time posting, and I just wat some clarity on this topic.

I am setting up a 75 gallon reef tank, this tank will be in my bedroom so I want to keep noise to a minimum, my glass is also tempered so I cant drill holes in the tank. I am thinking of running two Eheim 2217 canister filters instead of a sump, the only filter medium I will be using is floss and crushed coral, would this be sufficient? I am also going to be adding a lot of snails to help with the cleaning and maintenance.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[redfishsc]

I dunno where to find that fancy "WELCOME TO REEF CENTRAL" icon, so hopefully someone here will help me out on that!



That being said, be careful with canisters. While I LOVE them, they tend to get neglected and become a massive source of never-ending nitrate (and maybe even phosphate) problems. You really have to stay on top of them and clean them, at least, monthly.

If you are the average reefer, you'll do that for a month... then skip if for 3 months... then wonder why you have nitrate problems



Now, as for the sump thing. You do NOT need to drill a tank to run a sump, you only need a good overflow box (check out Marine Depot or Drs Foster and Smith for some examples, just search "overflow box")



As for what goes into the canister, I would NOT -----NOT put crushed coral in it. While it's safe enough at first, it will collect a LOT of detritus and other crap and just clog up.... meanwhile benefiting your tank nearly nothing.


Instead, put in some filter floss or pads, with some activated carbon and perhaps any other chemical filtration you want (some folks use Chemi Pure, and it does work, but don't tell anyone around here I said that ).



If you do go with a canister, just be prepared to clean that joker often!

 

[Hop]

[welcome]

 

[125G Reefer]

Hey there. Just get the Ocean Clear Canister filter, that'll take care of filtering, no need for 2. And I agree with above, don't put crushed coral in the thing. Use plenty of Live Rock and have some good flow in your tank, the rock will filter for you also. You gonna be throwing a Skimmer on there some time also??

 

[Bebo77]

you can always do a hob overflow

 

[santom]

Thanks for all the advice, Yes I was going to attach a protein skimmer to one of the filters. I was actually thinking of maybe getting a wet/dry eheim canister filter and attaching the protein skimmer to the filter, skimming out the large particles before entering the wet/dry filter. Does this Idea make any sense? I will also look into the Ocean Clear canister filters, the only reason I went with the dual canister setup is because I already have one Eheim 2217.

I was also told by my LFS that I should stay away from using Carbon in the Canister filter, and should stick to mainly biological filter media in salt water systems. Is this true?

would live rock survive in the filter with no light?

 

[125G Reefer]

Just use a micron filter or a filter pad. Live Rock goes into the tank and helps filter that way. The skimmer attached to the eheim, I'm thinkin won't work. You can use carbon in your filter also. Use it to polish up the water once in awhile, it also removes some toxins.

 

[redfishsc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14842364#post14842364 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by santom


I was also told by my LFS that I should stay away from using Carbon in the Canister filter, and should stick to mainly biological filter media in salt water systems. Is this true?

would live rock survive in the filter with no light?

Whoever told you that you should stay away from carbon for general reef use is full of crap. It was once thought that carbon filtered out trace elements, but successful tank after tank after tank after tank has used it, I use it, lots of folks use it.

Way way way too many benefits to using it.


As for the Eheim Wet/Dry, I'm sure it's a good filter but the wet/dry part is 100% useless for a reef tank, because if you have even a moderate amount of live rock, it will do all that you need for biological filtration. ALL that you need .

Save your money for a higher-capacity non-wet/dry model.



Some organisms on live rock are non-photosynthetic and might survive, but your live rock truly belongs in the tank and not in your filter.


The live rock in your tank will do all the biofiltering you need.

There is no need to put any sort of "rock" in a canister filter, whether it's crushed coral, live rock, sand, etc....

There are actually risks to putting the rock in the filter. First, it can accumulate organic crud, contributing to a never-ending sink full of nitrates that you won't be able to reduce easily. Second, if your biological filtration is happening in your canister filter instead of in your tank on the live rock, you run a BIG BIG risk of killing your biological filter every time you clean the canister. You really want your biological filtration to be done inside the tank on the live rock- where you are least likely to kill off the bacterial colonies.



I would ONLY put mechanical media and chemical media, and clean it monthly or twice a month. The longer it goes, the more of a biological filter it will become (bacteria on the mechanical and chemical media) and you run the same risk as with the rock in the canister: killing your biofilter.



You have a decent plan, just stick to a simple, high capacity canister filter and clean it often. Don't bother with "wet/dry" bells and whistles, use that money to just get a bigger canister.


Eheim and Fluval make some good ones!

 

[PRDubois]

A Fluval 405 is a Good Canister and you will only need one

, but you need a Good Skimmer First.
Look at the Octopus 800 HOB - Runs about $239

 

[tipmoff]

+1 on the skimmer. The way you are planning on filtering the tank the skimmer will be of great importance. Spend the money on a good skimmer and that is rated for double the size of the tank. I have a 55 gal mixed reef w/fish and I only have a HOB filter and haven't had a major problems yet. I have a lot of LR and a good skimmer and I also use carbon in the filter. Another consideration will be flow in the tank. Make sure you get some power heads in there to help the biological filtration through the LR.
You will gets lots a good (and sometimes questionable) advise here but ultimately each tank is different. Just keep on top of testing the water. cleaning the filter(s), and go slowly.
Good luck.

 

[Michael]

Canister Filters For Reef Aquaria?

What is a canister filter/external filter?

A canister filter/external filter (let’s just call them canisters for clarity) is usually a plastic drum or container with a motor on the top of it. It is usually filled with various media via plastic baskets and sucks water, usually containing excessive nutrients, from the aquarium via a flexible pipe into the drum or container where the water is forced through various media (discussed later in the article) and returned to the aquarium after being cleaned, via the motor at the top. There are various types; usually it is a sealed system and a wide range is available from all aquarium stores. Typical makes would be Eheim, Fluval, Tetra and many others are available as well.

What advantages are there, if any, in using one?

There are 4 advantages of using a canister filter in aquaria in my personal experience:
(1) for biological filtration
(2) for mechanical filtration
(3) for chemical filtration
(4) for additional water volume and stability

Biological filtration

For removing waste from the water system and converting it from ammonia to nitrogen gas via a bacteria colony. This is the basis of the nitrogen cycle and a very important filtration system. Life in aquaria would not usually exist without this filtration.

Mechanical filtration
For removing large particle waste from the aquarium usually by the use of sponges or in some cases brushes, this then allows the biological filtration to be much more efficient with the smaller particles of waste.

Chemical filtration
For removing medicines, organic waste and toxins from the water stream.

Additional water volume
This is usually an advantage for smaller aquaria such as Nano cubes and systems under 20 gallons if sump less. This also has the advantage of temperature and salinity stability due to the extra water in the canister. The canister also adds flow to the aquarium as well when the cleaned water is returned to the tank via the motor which moves the water.


What disadvantages are there with using one?

Well, most seasoned reef aquarists have discovered that canister filters can get dirty. This can, and usually does, eventually lead to the canister adding nitrates to the system. Basically detritus and other fish waste plus uneaten food or dead organisms gets trapped in the mechanical stage of the canister filter and, because the bacteria in the biological filter doesn’t get chance to get at it, the waste won’t be converted via the bacteria into harmless nitrogen gas. Usually the waste is just trapped in sponges or falls to the base of the canister and becomes a serious problem if left unattended. However, if cleaned regularly, this can be avoided.

What media is available?

There are various media available I wouldn’t be able to list them all, however a few examples would be:

Biological filtration
Ceramic rings, bio balls, live rock or other rubble type stone.

Mechanical filtration
Sponges or brushes.

Chemical filtration
Carbon, Rowaphos or Phosban, and many other similar type media which can remove chemicals from the water stream.

Is there any point using a canister with little or no media in it?
Yes there is, I think that within the reef aquarium a canister can be very useful for usage with carbon and a phosphate media, plus as previously mentioned it is very useful for additional water volume on the smallest aquarium and water systems.

What size does it need to be?

There are various sizes of canister filters available with various flow rates and manufacturers do list their preferred models for particular aquarium sizes.
However, I don’t think it is accurate to estimate or suggest a particular size as it all depends on what media is being used in the canister and what you intend to use the canister for. As you have already discovered they can be used in several ways so size will depend on intended use


How often does it need to be cleaned?

Again this depends on its use within the particular system. If a canister is to be used for reef aquaria, then I’d suggest weekly if mechanical filtration is used, monthly if chemical filtration is used and every 2-3 months or longer if biological filtration is used. As you can see this is where the problem begins and why most seasoned reef aquarists don’t like them and suggest not using them. If all 3 media types are to be used then shutting the canister down every week is and will become a pain as the media would need to be removed to get at the sponges to clean them, not practicable and pointless as well. With my experience with canisters which is around 25 years now on all types of aquaria I suggest that they are useful for chemical filtration and for adding water volume to smaller systems. I currently have a 92 gallon corner aquarium with a 13.5 gallon sump and do not use a canister filter at the moment on this system, but would consider doing so in the future if I felt I need one for my individual needs.

Conclusion

Well, what have we learned with this article. Basically that a canister filter can be useful and of benefit for the smallest of aquaria, and for hospital tanks to remove the medicines from them and sump-less systems because of the added water volume, but we have also learned that generally they can be a nuisance for most reefs because of the constant cleaning and shutting down to change and clean media. We have also learned that there are so many different types of media available that it is generally down to the individual aquarist whether it is practical and useful and the usual website gossip, hearsay and jumping on the bandwagon has some merit but is also not always the case. It’s up to you whether you use one, and only you will know if it’s a useful tool or a hindrance for your reef aquarium.