Cannister Filter Question / Testing Question

gjustinj

gjustinj

In Memoriam
Thank you again so much everyone, we are a little over a month in and I have a fully cycled tank, new Photon V2 50 LED coming, Octo classic 2K skimmer coming (came broke, waiting on BRS to fix the issue) and now I have 2 clown fish (ost/mocha).

It's been one night and all the fish seem to be doing great (scared me earlier when they were no where to be found for 10 minutes after turning on the light, but they did come out of their caves) :)

So as I understand it.. going forward I need to test for Nitrates and Nitrites weekly (unless something looks funky), if Nitrites are high do a Ammonia test, otherwise if Nitrates are high do a 15-20% water change, and basically do a 10-15 % change every week (unless they are both really low).

I know my cannister filter is not the 'best' and has nothing over a sump but unfortunately I am stuck with one for now. With that said, with the Fluval FX4 do I need to add additional media or chemicals or anything to it? or just as it is (link provided below). It's my understanding I will clean this once a week as well and clean the skimmer since I will be running it 'wet' more like once a day. (Simple to clean it from what I can tell).

Is this about right everyone? I want to make sure I understand this and do right by my fish! So in about a month I can add another 1 or 2 fish and continue.

My next stop to the store I am going to pick up 3 Blue/Green Chromis and a Cleaning Shrimp, and then probably 2 Borneo/Cardinals and a Coral Beauty (I'm not doing Corals, but in the future I do plan to introduce Anenomes)

Since I'm not doing 'coral if anyone knows of any 'fake' coral that might look really nice under my light please let me know!

http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/uk/product/A214-fx4-high-performance-canister-filter/#.WPjTm9LyuUk
 
If you are seeing nitrites then you are not fully cycled. Keep up with your partials, etc. We ran an FX5 on a 125 MR and keeping the NO3 low was a battle. We ran Purigen and Bio-Marine Polyfilter in the canister with no ceramic media. Run the skimmer 24/7. Lots of ways to do this Hobby. Always high maintenance even with a sump.
 
gjustinj said:
Thank you again so much everyone, we are a little over a month in and I have a fully cycled tank, new Photon V2 50 LED coming, Octo classic 2K skimmer coming (came broke, waiting on BRS to fix the issue) and now I have 2 clown fish (ost/mocha).

It's been one night and all the fish seem to be doing great (scared me earlier when they were no where to be found for 10 minutes after turning on the light, but they did come out of their caves) :)

So as I understand it.. going forward I need to test for Nitrates and Nitrites weekly (unless something looks funky), if Nitrites are high do a Ammonia test, otherwise if Nitrates are high do a 15-20% water change, and basically do a 10-15 % change every week (unless they are both really low).

I know my cannister filter is not the 'best' and has nothing over a sump but unfortunately I am stuck with one for now. With that said, with the Fluval FX4 do I need to add additional media or chemicals or anything to it? or just as it is (link provided below). It's my understanding I will clean this once a week as well and clean the skimmer since I will be running it 'wet' more like once a day. (Simple to clean it from what I can tell).

Is this about right everyone? I want to make sure I understand this and do right by my fish! So in about a month I can add another 1 or 2 fish and continue.

My next stop to the store I am going to pick up 3 Blue/Green Chromis and a Cleaning Shrimp, and then probably 2 Borneo/Cardinals and a Coral Beauty (I'm not doing Corals, but in the future I do plan to introduce Anenomes)

Since I'm not doing 'coral if anyone knows of any 'fake' coral that might look really nice under my light please let me know!

http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/uk/product/A214-fx4-high-performance-canister-filter/#.WPjTm9LyuUk
Click to expand...

No more fish for a month. You're moving way to fast on stocking. If you are showing any nitrites your tank isn't fully cycled. There is no such thing as 'pretty' fake corals. They simply serve as a place to grow nuisance algae. The light you purchased will be sufficient for an anemone but your tank won't be ready for at least a couple of months.

As far as the canister filter is concerned, I'd seriously consider ditching it altogether. With a 125 gallon tank, sufficient live rock and good water movement, I'd just use the canister occasionally to polish the water. Maybe run some activated carbon and filter floss for a week per month. It's almost definitely going to be more trouble than it's worth.
 
There seems to be confusion here. I never said I'm seeing nitrite's or nitrates and only have 2 clowns and 20 hermit crabs so far.

My post ia just telling you my plans thus far and asking what work flow I should be using going forward
 
If your nitrites are consistently testing at 0, you don't need to test for them anymore (maybe a few days after you add new fish but even that isn't really necessary). As far as speed is concerned, it sounded like you were going to add the chromis in the near future. If you plan on waiting a few weeks, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Chromis are great fish but they can be hit or miss in groups. My experiences have mostly been misses but others have had great success.

Whatever fish you buy, make sure that the store shows you that they are eating prepared food. Preferably flake or pellet food. If you don't see them eat, ask the store to hold the fish for a week. Go back and if they still can't get them to eat, skip the purchase.
 
Now that you have CUC and fish, your nitrate will rise. There is no way you can keep it close to 0 without skimming. So keep an eye on that. I find that nitrate level below 40ppm won't hurt the fish immediately. But above 20ppm will cause algea bloom.
I run carbon in my cannister. You can run polyfilter, but it is too expensive for me.
My system is 5 months old, skimmless and sumpless. I haven't do a wc for almost 3 weeks. My fishes, 2 BTA and Duncan are happy. My 1 acro is growing. My hammer and frogspawn are not as happy as they could be..ie...not fully extended.
So don't worry too much. Just keep your parameters inline and stable. QT your fish, and observe your tank. If something is not right, you will see it. Make incremental adjustment when necessary. Enjoy.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
WatDatThing said:
Now that you have CUC and fish, your nitrate will rise. There is no way you can keep it close to 0 without skimming. So keep an eye on that. I find that nitrate level below 40ppm won't hurt the fish immediately. But above 20ppm will cause algea bloom.
I run carbon in my cannister. You can run polyfilter, but it is too expensive for me.
My system is 5 months old, skimmless and sumpless. I haven't do a wc for almost 3 weeks. My fishes, 2 BTA and Duncan are happy. My 1 acro is growing. My hammer and frogspawn are not as happy as they could be..ie...not fully extended.
So don't worry too much. Just keep your parameters inline and stable. QT your fish, and observe your tank. If something is not right, you will see it. Make incremental adjustment when necessary. Enjoy.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You mentioned adding carbon or polyfilter. I am not very familiar with any of this. All I know is that I have a Fluval FX4 and whatever media things that came with it that are in there right now in the specified trays per the instructions - are you saying I should perhaps buy some other types of media and put in those trays? Does it matter what tray it goes into? Does it matter what media/type/brand, etc I use with the filter? Does it hurt to run it with just the media it came with and clean it each week/etc?
 
Canister filter is know as nitrate factory. That is because it pulls in organic matters into the filter which later becomes nitrate. My canister has 2 trays. I bottom tray is empty, no foam filters. The upper tray holds the carbon bag. That's it, no other filter media. If you have a sump, I think you would be running carbon from there...I think. Generally speaking, canister filter is seldom used in SW hobby.
 
WatDatThing said:
Canister filter is know as nitrate factory. That is because it pulls in organic matters into the filter which later becomes nitrate. My canister has 2 trays. I bottom tray is empty, no foam filters. The upper tray holds the carbon bag. That's it, no other filter media. If you have a sump, I think you would be running carbon from there...I think. Generally speaking, canister filter is seldom used in SW hobby.
Click to expand...


Hey there, yes I realize that Cans are looked down on this forum, and stuff :p But unfortunately when it's all you have at your disposal you need to figure out how to make it work. I read a lot of great articles online regarding this today and a lot of places say they are not so bad if you don't add coral (reef) and I decided I will not be doing coral - but will do an Anemone several months down the road as I learn more and more. I am not rushing by any means - and I have been very careful.

So here is the FX4, and how its trays work

http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/media/images/series/FX/fx4_en.png

Mechanical filter (5) Foam (1) Bio-foam
Biological filter (1) Bio-foam (2), (3) Biomax
Chemical filter (4) Carbon foam
Media volume 1 Gal (3.9 L)

So you understand I got most of my setup on Craigslist, so I am trying to figure out how to best lay out the trays for saltwater, if I need to add more media and in what trays I should add it, or if I should remove items in here etc. I am looking for some 'starting point' if how it comes designed is not good enough. I don't really understand all the different media's that well yet.

I am looking to gain knowledge for the best 'work flow' for my can from the knowledge here - how can I best make this perform like a sump ( i know it will never be the same ) but 125 G 6 ft tank with over 120Lb live rock, and 3 inch live sand bed with a octo 2k classic protein skimmer - what's my best option?
 
The only thing that you should put in the Can is some activated carbon. I prefer Seachem Matrix.

What you have to understand is that the real filtration in your system is taking place on and inside your live rock and to a somewhat lesser extent, your sandbed. Fish eat and then poop. The poop is first broken down into ammonia and then into nitrate by most aerobic bacteria living on the surface of the rock. Nitriite is then broken down a little deeper inside the rock into nitrate. Finally, deep inside the rock, anaerobic bacteria break down nitrate into nitrogen. It's basically a chemical reduction process.

The filtration in your can simply traps the detritus that would ordinarily be broken down by the above process. Rather than the nitrates being broken down by the anaerobic bacteria, they just collect in the can and get circulated in your tank. Let your CUC deal with it along with water changes and blowing off the rock with a powerhead.
 
Stolireef said:
The only thing that you should put in the Can is some activated carbon. I prefer Seachem Matrix.

What you have to understand is that the real filtration in your system is taking place on and inside your live rock and to a somewhat lesser extent, your sandbed. Fish eat and then poop. The poop is first broken down into ammonia and then into nitrate by most aerobic bacteria living on the surface of the rock. Nitriite is then broken down a little deeper inside the rock into nitrate. Finally, deep inside the rock, anaerobic bacteria break down nitrate into nitrogen. It's basically a chemical reduction process.

The filtration in your can simply traps the detritus that would ordinarily be broken down by the above process. Rather than the nitrates being broken down by the anaerobic bacteria, they just collect in the can and get circulated in your tank. Let your CUC deal with it along with water changes and blowing off the rock with a powerhead.
Click to expand...

So in your opinion I should pick up some activated carbon and throw it in the last tray (chemical) in the cannister, and continue using my powerheads to blow air around the tank, and do my water changes/tests and slowly add fish so I can keep track of bioload and when nitrates are becoming too much?

:)
 
gjustinj said:
So in your opinion I should pick up some activated carbon and throw it in the last tray (chemical) in the cannister, and continue using my powerheads to blow air around the tank, and do my water changes/tests and slowly add fish so I can keep track of bioload and when nitrates are becoming too much?

:)
Click to expand...
No air. Just water unless you want to deal with horrible salt creep.


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
You can use a canister as long as you are determined to keep it clean. Dont use filter floss or an excessive amount of sponge as those trap large amounts of detritus. I would fill all the trays but one with seachem matrix and seachem denitrate. These are porous pebbles specifically designed to grow bacteria; matrix is for aerobic bacteria and the dinitrate is for anaerobic bacteria. It is best to put dinitrate to the last tray before the water exits the canister. Hopefully bacteria before that tray would remove most of the oxygen and you can have some anaerobic bacteria living in the last tray. To the other tray put carbon, GFO or whatever media you require for your specific task.
 
Hey there looking at the diagram on the website. Should I remove any think from the can? Or just add to the trays,leaving what's there too?
 
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