Cannon's Clowns - Breeding Project

[sassAwrasse]

My boyfriend and I decided we wanted to try and breed a pair of Picasso clowns we had acquired from a friend. We named them Adam & Eve. We ended up finding someone who was getting rid of their broodstock...and 1 pair turned into 7 pairs and a whole room dedicated to breeding. This started in October 2012.

Broodstock: Picasso, Vivid Fancy, Blacker Ice, Flame/Fire, True Percula, Clarkii, WC Gold-stripe Maroons

our equipment list:

(2) 70 gallon broodstock tanks separated into 4 sections (140gallons total)
flowing into a
40gallon sump with reef octopus nwb-250 skimmer
flowing into a
4stage lifeguard filtration system
flowing into a
55gallon sump (3 sections) with AquaUFO LED pendant..first section with chaeto, 2nd section with refugium mud,live sand, mangroves, macro algae, peppermint shrimp, and emerald crabs...
3rd section flows into a
Reeflo Hammerhead Hybrid pump
which then flows back into the broodstock tanks

We have (2) 8bulb t-5 nova extreme fixtures side by side above the broodstock tanks. We also have a 5-stage RODI system.

Originally the system was plumbed with pvc "spray bars" in each of the broodstock tanks. We found that the clownfish did not go near the pots and mostly hid behind the bars. We originally went with the hammerhead pump because we had planned on plumbing the growout system in as well...however,we are now rethinking this.The pump pushing water from sump through lifeguard system then to fuge is not nearly as powerful as the hammerhead, so we currently have the hammerhead dialed down a bit. Having the pump dialed down, we also were not seeing the type of flow we wanted from the spray bars. We made the decision to turn them into "faucets."

The pictures are a bit old.They still show live rock and the spray bars in the tanks. All live rock was moved to sump and/or fuge, and as stated above, we removed the spray bars.

don't mind the extra wires and mess everywhere..we hadn't cleaned up yet..

 

[sassAwrasse]

Gold-stripe Maroons

Picasso

Blacker Ice

Percula

Clarkii

Flame

Vivid Fancy

We also have a pair of onyx perculas in our 125g DT that we're hoping will spawn as well...

 

[sassAwrasse]

Will be updating the thread with our progress...and with newer pics.

 

[567234ta]

wow nice looking clowns I really like the way you did the stand elevated like that.
Is that pump putting out a lot of pressure? i been needing a new pump for a similar setup because the panworld 200 ps just isn't enough pressure for me, it is about half of what i need.

 

[sassAwrasse]

Thanks. I wish they would just stay still for a nice picture! LOL



the reeflo hammerhead hybrid specs:

Maximum Flow Rate: 6000/4590gph
Maximum Shut-Off Head: 24/20'
Maximum Wattage: 355/253W
Average Wattage: 337/237W
Inlet/Outlet: 1.5" FNPT / 1.5" FNPT
Dimensions (L x W x H): 14.20" x 8.33" x 7.54"


_______________________________________________________

The pump is way too much for just our broodstock system. Originally we were planning on the growout system being plumbed into the same sump/refugium. Eventually we would've used the hammerhead for everything. So currently we have it dialed down quite a bit..

However, we decided to do a separate sump/fuge for the growout system, so we'll probably switch pumps around.

 

[Luis A M]

I think your "percula" are ocellaris:hmm5:

 

[sassAwrasse]

I think your "percula" are ocellaris:hmm5:

It's definitely hard to see them clearly in the photo but they are percula.

Their dorsal fins are shorter and more rounded (as characteristic of percula) and they have a yellow corona around the eye (ocellaris have a solid black eye versus the yellow corona or "ring").

Thanks for looking.:wave:

 

[forester]

Nice fish what did you use to divide the tanks, where did you get the tanks, how are you going to grow out the babies and where will you be selling. Sorry for all the questions. I am interested in buying some of the babies once you have them. Thanks.

 

[sassAwrasse]

We got the tanks from someone else...I believe he got them from a fish store at some point. They are built together so there was no need to separate them. We have a separate system (in the same room) for the growouts. I'll post more information about the growouts once it's completed. We live in CT. We'll be selling them locally at first, eventually online as well.

 

[edandsandy]

Nice looking set up!

 

[forester]

Thanks for the info.

 

[sassAwrasse]

Nice looking set up!

Thank you!

 

[Reefed419]

Very nice. Why are u using such powerful lighting? I would think that will increase algea growth in the broodstock tanks and you are using alot of extra power running that many lights. Just thinking u could use 4 single strip t-5 to light your broodstock for a 1/4 of the energy. That is unless your are planning on housing Anemonies in the broodstock tanks. Are any of the pairs laying for you yet? Look forward to following along.

 

[Fishboy42]

It's definitely hard to see them clearly in the photo but they are percula.

Their dorsal fins are shorter and more rounded (as characteristic of percula) and they have a yellow corona around the eye (ocellaris have a solid black eye versus the yellow corona or "ring").

Thanks for looking.:wave:

Luis is right; these are ocellaris. Nice collection. Not trying to be difficult, but it is possible for the experienced eye to tell at a glance (body shape, color, fins, eyes, etc). I know I'd want to know the correct species names for the fish in my broodstock collection. One of my first posts on RC was to ask how to tell the difference between percs/o's, as it can be tricky at first. My suggestion would be to look at examples of both species to train your eye to see the characteristics of both so that it becomes easier to distinguish them on the not-so-easy examples (or hybrids, hmph...).

 

[Ostara]

Luis is right; these are ocellaris. Nice collection. Not trying to be difficult, but it is possible for the experienced eye to tell at a glance (body shape, color, fins, eyes, etc). I know I'd want to know the correct species names for the fish in my broodstock collection. One of my first posts on RC was to ask how to tell the difference between percs/o's, as it can be tricky at first. My suggestion would be to look at examples of both species to train your eye to see the characteristics of both so that it becomes easier to distinguish them on the not-so-easy examples (or hybrids, hmph...).

Agreed. The "Percula" pair are definitely ocellaris. The color alone is a dead giveaway; they are brownish instead of the bright orange of a percula, and the color is a gradient that is darker on top and lighter on the bottom instead of uniform. Plus they have the grey ocellaris eyes of course.

I would post up some more pictures of the "onyx" though because the one that can be seen clearly also looks like an ocellaris, but the picture could definitely be better.

Your system is really nice. I like the stand and the layout of the tanks a lot. I would remove the reef lighting and save it for some coral tanks though. I've tried using those exact lights on a similar system (for quarantine purposes, not breeding) and all they did was grow copious amounts of algae. :lol: Definitely overkill for a fish system!

 

[sassAwrasse]

thanks on the input on the ocellaris vs perculas. I will see if I can snap a better photo regardless. I've been using the cell phone to photograph so far.

as for the lighting, it was what we had for the time being. we are experiencing a bit more algae than I would like, but they'll be staying in place until funds allow for something else.

 

[sassAwrasse]

so the "onyx" were sold to us as "mochas." clearly they are not. again, I identified them as onyx percula because of the yellow corona they have around the eye. 2 LFS have identified them as that based on these pictures. If they are not onyx then must be black ocellaris. they are in our DT

 

[sassAwrasse]

so i'm looking at pictures of ocell vs perc online.

found alot of ocellaris that look like this:
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgNeXZiG0YRPMFEiv5ZT3kz1q5KZH-yqt7xYBman9ILQuKeBfI
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+27+137&pcatid=137

found these for percula:
http://************.com/files/2008/07/clownfish-percula-amphiprion-percula-300x300.jpg
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+27+142&pcatid=142

my pair do not have the pointy dorsal fins like the ocellaris are shown with. And they have the yellow corona around the eye, which I've read in many places is characteristic of percula. the only thing I haven't been able to do is count the barbs in the fins as they are always moving right when I get down to the last few.

I'm not trying to be difficult either, lol. I just want to know what I have.
so again, when the lights are on tomorrow, i'll try to take some better pictures of them.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Ostara]

The orange/brown pair are absolutely, unequivocally ocellaris. They do not have a single trait to suggest that they are percula. The darker clowns definitely are not perculas either as they also have grey eyes. They appear to be black ocellaris that have not fully colored up yet. It is possible that the one in the first picture is a hybrid of a black ocellaris and an onyx percula. The coloration of the lower fins is often seen on onyx percula, but it is also often seen on black ocellaris that are not fully colored up. Fishboy is correct; once you know the species you can tell the difference at a glance. The only A. percula you have are the picassos.

But since you are getting into breeding, I'll see if I can help clear things up a bit so that you can identify them yourself.

Dorsal shape is a poor indication of species. In fact, it isn't really an indicator at all. Your standard ocellaris pair appear to be captive bred and captive bred clowns do not seem to have the taller dorsal fin that you see on some wild A. ocellaris specimens. Right now I have two wild caught Bali ocellaris. The larger female has a tall dorsal. The smaller male has a short rounded one. Same species caught in the same area, but they are different physically.

You seem to be a bit confused about the eyes. I'm not sure what you mean by a yellow corona or which part of the eye you are referring to. A. percula has orange or yellow irises. Your two pairs have grey irises, not yellow. Look at the eyes of your picassos. See how everything but the pupil is orange?

Here are some good pictures.

Percula:

Note the orange/yellow iris and the uniform orange coloration. Also note the color; it is BRIGHT, not dull or muddy like many ocellaris. Of course there are also the characteristic thick black lines that your ocellaris pair do not have. The outlines on ocellaris are sharp as if they have been drawn on with a pencil, whereas those on perculas have a smudged look like charcoal.

Ocellaris:

The irises on this fish are darker and rather hazy in color. The coloration is dark and uneven, with the underside of the fish being lighter in color. The fish is captive bred and has a short, rounded dorsal.

You are right that occasionally an ocellaris, usually freshly wild caught specimens, can be tricky and have lighter irises. These DO tend to darken in captivity to a more normal grey or brown from what I have seen, but let's look at one.

This guy is tricky to the untrained eye and could definitely be mistaken for a percula if one looks only at his irises (though there is a little darker color lurking in there). In this case, the fact that the black lines are so thin that they are almost nonexistent is a dead giveaway. The color is a more dull orange than that of a percula. You can also count 11 dorsal rays in this picture, though that isn't always a great indicator either since I've seen people report all sorts of dorsal ray counts in clowns.

Hopefully that is helpful. I know at first it seems like a guessing game with both looking alike, but truly once you see enough of them it becomes second nature. To me, the two species look as entirely different from one another as a skunk and a maroon. Of course, the larval development in the two species is also quite different as perculas are slower to grow and color up but that's another topic entirely! :lol:

 

[Fishboy42]

The darker ones you have pictured there are ocellaris as well. Most likely a mocha (black x orange cross). Mochas (and Fancy clowns) can become very dark with maturity.

Good stuff Ostara!

-Matt