Cannot Raise Alk/Cal (Long Post)

[bertoni]

1 dKH per day seems reasonable.

 

[scelona]

Okay so I am back to unreasonably high consumption. 14 hours ago I measured an alk of 7.7 dkH and raised the alkalinity by 0.5 dKH. I just measured and it the alk has fallen to 7.0 dKH so that is giving me a consumption rate of a little over 2 dKH/day.

My alk seems to fall a greater amount overnight then it does during the day but this just might be because of the longer gaps in testing at night. Does the fact that the alkalinity continues rapidly dropping well after the dosing indicate anything? It seems possible that precipitation would occur heavily right after dosing rather then later but I am unsure. Should I continue dosing or try a different approach?

 

[bertoni]

I probably would measure just once a day and dose accordingly. There might be enough noise in the alkalinity measurement to make a bit of an effect, and night vs day consumption rates might be an issue, as well.

Precipitation would happen shortly after the supplement goes into the tank. It might be in the form of small crystals (tiny particles of sand), though. Such small particle could measure as alkalinity on a test kit because the acid titration might dissolve the calcium carbonate.

You're still using the sodium bicarbonate formula with a dripper? Is the sand showing any signs of clumping?

 

[scelona]

I probably would measure just once a day and dose accordingly. There might be enough noise in the alkalinity measurement to make a bit of an effect, and night vs day consumption rates might be an issue, as well.

Precipitation would happen shortly after the supplement goes into the tank. It might be in the form of small crystals (tiny particles of sand), though. Such small particle could measure as alkalinity on a test kit because the acid titration might dissolve the calcium carbonate.

You're still using the sodium bicarbonate formula with a dripper? Is the sand showing any signs of clumping?

Yes I am using the dripper. I actually combed through my sand today just to check for clumps and didn't find any. I also haven't seen signs of precipitation on the pumps/heaters. I will try a full 24 hour test as soon as I can.

I am using the same dripper to add both the alkalinity and calcium solutions and the alkalinity solution was noticeably cloudy today. I am wondering if it would be worth making a devoted dripper for each supplement, might be overkill but I am trying to be extremely cautious at this point.

 

[bertoni]

If the dripper is rinsed between uses, it should be fine for both supplements. If there's precipitation happening, I suspect it'd be inside pumps at this point, but that's just a guess. I probably wouldn't worry much yet, although I'd keep watching.

 

[scelona]

If the dripper is rinsed between uses, it should be fine for both supplements. If there's precipitation happening, I suspect it'd be inside pumps at this point, but that's just a guess. I probably wouldn't worry much yet, although I'd keep watching.

Okay thanks a lot for your help and recommendations, really appreciate it. I will continue keeping an eye on things.

 

[scelona]

Okay I will continue keeping an eye on things and updating this thread. Thanks so much for you help and recommendations, I really appreciate it.

 

[outssider]

I am using the same dripper to add both the alkalinity and calcium solutions and the alkalinity solution was noticeably cloudy today. I am wondering if it would be worth making a devoted dripper for each supplement, might be overkill but I am trying to be extremely cautious at this point.

I have one for each. but there home made and cost me nothing

 

[scelona]

Update. This morning my alk tested out at 7.6 dKH so I added 2.4 mL of sodium bicarbonate solution in order to raise it to 8.6 dKH. I did the additions over a 1 hour period, dripping the solution. I just tested (9.5 hours later) and the alkalinity is now at 7.7 dKH. So this alk is going somewhere very quickly. I have tested two salt mixes and have gotten acceptable results so I know that my test kits and methods are accurate within the accepted range. One of these buckets is a red sea pro salt (I've never used it but have it around) and got an alkalinity of 12.5 dKH. I am so unsure what to do at this point. Still no signs of precipitation on my pumps and no clumping of my sand.

 

[bertoni]

I would measure the dKH in the morning to see how it's dropping overnight, and work from there.

 

[power boat jim]

Maybe try putting a fresh gallon or two (Or however much you want to work with) of salt water in a container and try adding enough alk additive to raise 1 or 2 dkh. That way you will remove all variabes from the tank. You will then know if there is some sort if issue with the additve or if the tank is consuming it nearly as fast as you are putting it in.

 

[scelona]

I would measure the dKH in the morning to see how it's dropping overnight, and work from there.

I tested this morning and the alkalinity had dropped an additional 0.6 dKH to 7.1 dKH. I don't see what could be causing this except precipitation.

 

[scelona]

Maybe try putting a fresh gallon or two (Or however much you want to work with) of salt water in a container and try adding enough alk additive to raise 1 or 2 dkh. That way you will remove all variabes from the tank. You will then know if there is some sort if issue with the additve or if the tank is consuming it nearly as fast as you are putting it in.

This is a good idea I will give this a try. I think I will try doing this with two gallons of tank water in a bucket and two gallons of fresh salt water to see if I get the same results for both.

 

[bertoni]

1.2 dKH per day is fairly reasonable. You might be worrying too much. Please let us know how the tank water test goes!

 

[ajjw0828]

It sounds like you know what your doing. I'll just throw this out there... Why not run your ATO with Kalk instead of dosing the two part? Seems like if you use an ATO to track Evap per day, and track how much Kalk you place in the ATO it would continually dose all day and possibly make it easier to adjust your levels by adding more or less Kalk once you have an idea of how the levels are trending. Just something else to try, you may have already done this tho, as I read you were/ are using one while dosing. Just an idea.


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[scelona]

Thanks for the responses guy. I have my test running right now: two gallons of tank water, two gallons of fresh salt water, and the tank itself. I measure the starting alkalinity for each last night and dosed them up to about 8.3 dKH. I will test tonight and see how the changes compare.

I am leaving for a 4 day trip in a few days so I will be using kalkwasser then. I have been doing the two part dosing to get a better estimate for my tank needs but I plan on using kalk as my alk/cal replacement.

 

[scelona]

Just measured the alkalinity in my two containers of water:

Bucket of tank water with power head: ~8.2 dKH
Tank: ~7.1 dKH

Does this provide any insight into whether or not precipitation or consumption is the main factor? I am starting to agree with you guys that I am probably just over reacting and over thinking things but I have such a small number of corals and no coralline growth. If I am getting 1.2 dKH consumption daily with this number of corals (almost all softies) then I can't even imagine what a full tank would consume.

 

[bertoni]

Are there any signs of precipitation in the bucket? Any fine powder in or buildup on the bucket? What was the dKH before and immediately after dosing?

 

[scelona]

Are there any signs of precipitation in the bucket? Any fine powder in or buildup on the bucket? What was the dKH before and immediately after dosing?

The bucket and tank were both at 7.1 dKH prior to dosing and I did not measure the alkalinity after dosing until tonight (24 hrs later). No signs of precipitation, the bucket is orange and the power head is black so it would be really easy to see. I used a reef calculator to measure out the volume of solution needed to get to 8.3 dKH and was as accurate as possible but of course there's some human error in those numbers.

 

[bertoni]

Well, it seems clear that the supplement isn't precipitating in the bucket, at least not appreciably. That's a good basic sanity test of the parameters.