Chad's Simultaneous 225 SPS & 180 FOWLR Office Build
- Thread starter Mr. Brooks
- Start date
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
Thanks Bax! I finally took a quick look at your build from 2006. Can't wait to see what you do with your 220!
I'm thinking about going bare bottom. Seems like it'd be a lot easier to keep clean, I could add as much flow as I wanted, it'd help me avoid scratches on my acrylic tank, and I'd save quite a bit of money by not having to buy all that sand. I could use white foam underneath to help with aesthetics. I've always preferred the look of sand though...
Comments?
I'm thinking about going bare bottom. Seems like it'd be a lot easier to keep clean, I could add as much flow as I wanted, it'd help me avoid scratches on my acrylic tank, and I'd save quite a bit of money by not having to buy all that sand. I could use white foam underneath to help with aesthetics. I've always preferred the look of sand though...
Comments?
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
I thought I'd finally get started on the 180 side of this simultaneous build.
The tank was pretty clean when I bought it but it still had a couple remnants of coraline algae here and there. I wanted to soak it in vinegar water for a few days but I was completely stumped as to how I was going to fill it with water. The hose outside doesn't reach inside my warehouse and I wasn't about to leave it out front for several days. It finally dawned on me today, I could fill the tank outside and move it into the warehouse with my fork lift! I can't tell you how many times this thing has come in handy.
<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view¤t=FishTankBuild042.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild042.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view¤t=FishTankBuild043.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild043.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view¤t=FishTankBuild044.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild044.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view¤t=FishTankBuild045.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild045.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
We often joke about the close proximity of water to large amounts of electricity on our fish tanks. I thought some of you might get a kick out of this. The only empty bay in my warehouse was right next to my electric fork lift charger. I can't say off the top of my head but this thing pumps out a MASSIVE amount of electricity.
<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view¤t=FishTankBuild046.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild046.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Next step will be modifying the old stand to make room for a third 1 1/2" pipe in the overflow. I'll have two stand pipes on either side and a return pipe going up the middle. There's a center support blocking the path of the return line. I plan to remove the center support, move it to the side, and add another to the other side. Hopefully this will be the extent of my woodworking for the entire build lol.
The tank was pretty clean when I bought it but it still had a couple remnants of coraline algae here and there. I wanted to soak it in vinegar water for a few days but I was completely stumped as to how I was going to fill it with water. The hose outside doesn't reach inside my warehouse and I wasn't about to leave it out front for several days. It finally dawned on me today, I could fill the tank outside and move it into the warehouse with my fork lift! I can't tell you how many times this thing has come in handy.
<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view¤t=FishTankBuild042.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild042.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view¤t=FishTankBuild043.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild043.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view¤t=FishTankBuild044.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild044.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view¤t=FishTankBuild045.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild045.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
We often joke about the close proximity of water to large amounts of electricity on our fish tanks. I thought some of you might get a kick out of this. The only empty bay in my warehouse was right next to my electric fork lift charger. I can't say off the top of my head but this thing pumps out a MASSIVE amount of electricity.
<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view¤t=FishTankBuild046.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild046.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Next step will be modifying the old stand to make room for a third 1 1/2" pipe in the overflow. I'll have two stand pipes on either side and a return pipe going up the middle. There's a center support blocking the path of the return line. I plan to remove the center support, move it to the side, and add another to the other side. Hopefully this will be the extent of my woodworking for the entire build lol.
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
I need to get some flow advice from you guys. I have two options, tell me which one you like better.
Option 1:
225 6' x 2' SPS reef, all the following items have been purchased..
a. Barracuda return pump on OM 4-way with 4 nozzles on the top of the tank pointing down at the rock from the front.
b. Dart pump on closed loop with two 3/4" sea swirls mounted on the back corners and two 1/2" fixed nozzles on either side of the overflow pushing water behind the rock. I would need to cut two 1 1/2" holes in the back about a third of the way down on either side of the overflow. One benefit of this is that I was going to hook up a ball valve to the closed loop intake which would allow me to drain the top third of the tank by simply running the hose to a drain and turning the valve. Downside though is that some random person might get curious and decide to see what happens when they turn the valve, thereby draining the top third of my tank on to the floor.
c. One Vortech powerhead hidden somewhere in the back between the rock.
Average watt consumption with this setup = 408
180 Fish Only..
Dart return pump, no wave device, just two, maybe three fixed outlets. This will be fish only for a long time. In a few years when the 225 has filled out I may upgrade the lights and turn it into a softy reef.
Option 2:
225 SPS reef..
a. Barracuda return pump on OM 4-way with 4 nozzles on the top of the tank pointing down at the rock from the front.
b. Sell the closed loop dart (brand new in box) and buy an additional vortech powerhead. So no holes drilled, just two vortech pumps pushing about 6,000 gallons per hour, hidden somewhere on the back, between the rock. I'd loose the nozzles pushing water behind the rock but I'm guessing the massive amount of flow the vortechs create and the undertow effect would handle any dead spots behind the rock.
Average watt consumption with this setup: 298
180 Fish Only..
Dart return pump with two 3/4" sea swirls. This may elimintate the need for powerheads in this tank. At least as long as it's fish only.
Here's what I like about option 1: It won't cost me anything extra, I already have everything. I also like how random and chaotic the flow will be coming from so many nozzles, two of which are oscillating. What I don't like is the holes in my tank, an extra 110 watts of energy consumption, more plumbing and chances for leaks, maintenence on the dart which will be difficult to get to behind the tank, and frequent cleaning of the intake screens. Not sure but I also think there's less "total GPH" with this setup.
What I like about option 2: None of the downsides of the closed loop, less energy consumption, I can place the powerheads anywhere I want making it very adaptable, lots and lots of gentle flow. I also like that with this setup I won't have to run the barracuda return through the overflow, thereby eliminating two 90 degree elbows. I also think the 180 will benfit from having the sea swirls. I should be able to avoid having to purchase powerheads meaning less energy consumption and more money in my pocket. I don't like the fact that I'll need to sell a dart and spend a little extra for another vortech but that's not really a big deal.
I think simply writing this down has helped me make up my mind but I'd still like to hear what you think.
Option 1:
225 6' x 2' SPS reef, all the following items have been purchased..
a. Barracuda return pump on OM 4-way with 4 nozzles on the top of the tank pointing down at the rock from the front.
b. Dart pump on closed loop with two 3/4" sea swirls mounted on the back corners and two 1/2" fixed nozzles on either side of the overflow pushing water behind the rock. I would need to cut two 1 1/2" holes in the back about a third of the way down on either side of the overflow. One benefit of this is that I was going to hook up a ball valve to the closed loop intake which would allow me to drain the top third of the tank by simply running the hose to a drain and turning the valve. Downside though is that some random person might get curious and decide to see what happens when they turn the valve, thereby draining the top third of my tank on to the floor.
c. One Vortech powerhead hidden somewhere in the back between the rock.
Average watt consumption with this setup = 408
180 Fish Only..
Dart return pump, no wave device, just two, maybe three fixed outlets. This will be fish only for a long time. In a few years when the 225 has filled out I may upgrade the lights and turn it into a softy reef.
Option 2:
225 SPS reef..
a. Barracuda return pump on OM 4-way with 4 nozzles on the top of the tank pointing down at the rock from the front.
b. Sell the closed loop dart (brand new in box) and buy an additional vortech powerhead. So no holes drilled, just two vortech pumps pushing about 6,000 gallons per hour, hidden somewhere on the back, between the rock. I'd loose the nozzles pushing water behind the rock but I'm guessing the massive amount of flow the vortechs create and the undertow effect would handle any dead spots behind the rock.
Average watt consumption with this setup: 298
180 Fish Only..
Dart return pump with two 3/4" sea swirls. This may elimintate the need for powerheads in this tank. At least as long as it's fish only.
Here's what I like about option 1: It won't cost me anything extra, I already have everything. I also like how random and chaotic the flow will be coming from so many nozzles, two of which are oscillating. What I don't like is the holes in my tank, an extra 110 watts of energy consumption, more plumbing and chances for leaks, maintenence on the dart which will be difficult to get to behind the tank, and frequent cleaning of the intake screens. Not sure but I also think there's less "total GPH" with this setup.
What I like about option 2: None of the downsides of the closed loop, less energy consumption, I can place the powerheads anywhere I want making it very adaptable, lots and lots of gentle flow. I also like that with this setup I won't have to run the barracuda return through the overflow, thereby eliminating two 90 degree elbows. I also think the 180 will benfit from having the sea swirls. I should be able to avoid having to purchase powerheads meaning less energy consumption and more money in my pocket. I don't like the fact that I'll need to sell a dart and spend a little extra for another vortech but that's not really a big deal.
I think simply writing this down has helped me make up my mind but I'd still like to hear what you think.
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Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
Thanks for chiming in Bax! Looks like I'm about to join the ranks of the many who bought all the necessary plumbing for a closed loop only to have changed their minds at the last minute. I just pilled all the leftover plumbing together, it's sickening. So much money wasted. I'm also going to try and ditch the check valve. If my calculations are correct, I won't need it. Once I've finished the plumbing on the 180 I'll start selling off the more expensive plumbing parts.
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Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
My tanks are getting more and more simple every day lol.
Itaysworld
Premium Member
There is no question that the closed loop is a real pain in the @$$ to set up, but having just done that, I must say I really like the fact that I don't have any powerheads to clean/maintain and there is nothing in my tank to obstruct or take away from the view of the live rock and inhabitants.
Either options are viable and will result in a great system. It was rough to plumb it all, but I think it was worth it.
Not having had a tank without one, I can't really give you a truly thorough opinion, but I can say that I'm glad I went with the closed loop. The 4 way OM and eductors move a lot of water.
The key is to like whichever option you go with in the end!
Either options are viable and will result in a great system. It was rough to plumb it all, but I think it was worth it.
Not having had a tank without one, I can't really give you a truly thorough opinion, but I can say that I'm glad I went with the closed loop. The 4 way OM and eductors move a lot of water.
The key is to like whichever option you go with in the end!
Reefer Brian
In Memoriam
So your obviously not going to have the tank up againt the wall with the light rack and CL pump rack in rear. Where is it going to be located? Just curious. The woodworking looks sweet.
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
It will be about 10" off the wall. The return pump will be behind the tank in the center. With an RODI reservroir on the right and the skimmer collection cup on the left. If I had bought your tank I would've put it closer to the wall. I'll put a fake tree in the corner to hide the 10" gap. Someone made fun of me the other day for spending thousands on a living reef and placing a fake tree right next to it lol. I don't mind the gap though. So many guys on RC have entire fish rooms to work with. Having an extra 10" under the tank will make a world of difference.
Bax
Premium Member
chad
if all you end up with is a few extra check valves, don't feel too bad!
I have a pile of plumbing fitting, tanks, Sequence pumps all from planning CLs and then testing and really liking, Tunzes and the MP 40 working together.
... It wouldn't be the worst thing to run the CL and a pair of MP 40's.
My 120 is a gainst the wall and I wished I'd left 12". I have about 9 and I am pretty skinny and getting back there is a real PITA!
if all you end up with is a few extra check valves, don't feel too bad!
I have a pile of plumbing fitting, tanks, Sequence pumps all from planning CLs and then testing and really liking, Tunzes and the MP 40 working together.
... It wouldn't be the worst thing to run the CL and a pair of MP 40's.
My 120 is a gainst the wall and I wished I'd left 12". I have about 9 and I am pretty skinny and getting back there is a real PITA!
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
So do you think I should go ahead with the closed loop anyway? I'm set on using the sea swirls on the 180. I could just run four fixed nozzles along the back. Only downside is the extra wattage, maintenance on the dart (which will really suck), two permanent holes in the back of the tank and the two screens on those holes that will need to be cleaned often. It would set the second vortech back a while, I was going to use the cash from the pumnp to help with the vortech purchase. I guess the potential for leaks isn't that big of a deal, I don't expect I'll have any.. Ahhhh! Such a hard decision. You say, it couldn't hurt to have more flow, but then your using more energy and doing more work to set it up and keep it maintained. I was thinking if I go the two vortech route I could eventually buy another two to go on each side panel, and run the wires under the fan screens. The vortechs just seem so much easier. Can you imagine four vortechs in a 6' x 2' area?! It'd be nuts! But then again it wouldn't be THAT hard to run both.
Bax
Premium Member
chad
It had slipped my mind that your tank is acrylic, to me there's less issues with drilling. One option would be to set up the CL, run it to start, pick up the MP-40's as you can. Now you can intermitently run the CL as a "storm" effect to help flush the tank and resuspend detritus once a week, or month or even once or twice a day for a few hours. This is something I am considering for a display I am dreaming about at my house as a CL full time is a power gluton, even with a Dart.
It had slipped my mind that your tank is acrylic, to me there's less issues with drilling. One option would be to set up the CL, run it to start, pick up the MP-40's as you can. Now you can intermitently run the CL as a "storm" effect to help flush the tank and resuspend detritus once a week, or month or even once or twice a day for a few hours. This is something I am considering for a display I am dreaming about at my house as a CL full time is a power gluton, even with a Dart.
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
Good idea bax...
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
I did some research on the Aquacontroller. It has a wavemaker feature that will soft start a pump for up to four hours. I think I'll go ahead and install the closed loop and set it up to run twice a day for four hours. Not sure how much tides actually affect the reefs that our corals come from, but my tank will have a low tide high tide setup regardless. I think I'll run the dart in the morning for four hours (low tide), then off while the metal halides are on (high tide), then on again after the lights turn off (low tide), then off as the moon lights come on (high tide). All the other pumps will remain on 24/7. What do you guys think? Save some money on my electric bill and add some semblance of a natural reef. I went ahead and bought another set of sea swirls from an RC member to go on the 180. So I'll end up using the new sea swirls on the 225. I've read it's bad to stop and start the sea swirls so I'll probably run those 24/7 even though they'll only be pushing water 8 hours a day. They only use four watts each so I'm not too worried about it. I think I might call the manufacturer to see how the sea swirls would do on a soft start setup.
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
My Vortech came in today! I set it up in the 135 to test it out. I'd heard from some that Vortechs were noisy. I have to disagree 100%. This thing is silent!
I've come full circle on my closed loop issue. Although the Vortech pushes a TON of water, I've decided to go ahead with the closed loop install. I'd considered setting it up on a soft start timer but have decided against it because of the risk of damage to the pump and sea swirls. I really like the invisibilty of closed loops and I think the extra flow will really help. I also hated the idea of wasting all those plumbing parts. I think I'll eventually get another Vortech but that won't be needed for a while and is something I can add easily. A closed loop can't be added after the fact very easily so I might as well install it now while the tank is empty. I also figured out a couple ways to make maintenance easier on the dart in addition to making the return plumbing more efficient, cleaner, and easier to set up. So what's another 100 watts and two holes in the back of my tank? I think it'll be worth it. BTW the comments left on my thread really helped, thanks guys!
I hope to get my stand and canopy toward the end of the week. I'll have lots and lots of pics once the actual "build" begins. Hopefully this weekend!!
On another note, I haven't brought any extra electrical lines into my office. I'm kinda crossing fingers at this point hoping that I won't need to have an electircian come in. If I do end up needing to run more lines, then at least the tank will be off the wall enough to get behind it. My concern over the wattage of the closed loop was born partly out of this issue. I want to keep the wattage and the number of pumps down as much as possible to leave room for the three 400 watt halides.
I've come full circle on my closed loop issue. Although the Vortech pushes a TON of water, I've decided to go ahead with the closed loop install. I'd considered setting it up on a soft start timer but have decided against it because of the risk of damage to the pump and sea swirls. I really like the invisibilty of closed loops and I think the extra flow will really help. I also hated the idea of wasting all those plumbing parts. I think I'll eventually get another Vortech but that won't be needed for a while and is something I can add easily. A closed loop can't be added after the fact very easily so I might as well install it now while the tank is empty. I also figured out a couple ways to make maintenance easier on the dart in addition to making the return plumbing more efficient, cleaner, and easier to set up. So what's another 100 watts and two holes in the back of my tank? I think it'll be worth it. BTW the comments left on my thread really helped, thanks guys!
I hope to get my stand and canopy toward the end of the week. I'll have lots and lots of pics once the actual "build" begins. Hopefully this weekend!!
On another note, I haven't brought any extra electrical lines into my office. I'm kinda crossing fingers at this point hoping that I won't need to have an electircian come in. If I do end up needing to run more lines, then at least the tank will be off the wall enough to get behind it. My concern over the wattage of the closed loop was born partly out of this issue. I want to keep the wattage and the number of pumps down as much as possible to leave room for the three 400 watt halides.
Itaysworld
Premium Member
Good Man!
I don't think you'll regret having decided to go the closed loop way! May be a bit more work now but in the long run your tank will look really clean and have a lot of flow!
Can't wait to see your finished stand!
Best.
I don't think you'll regret having decided to go the closed loop way! May be a bit more work now but in the long run your tank will look really clean and have a lot of flow!
Can't wait to see your finished stand!
Best.
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