Chaetodon Ornatissimus - Seriously considering it

[caribfan]

Ok before everybody responds and says it - yes I know it's an Obligate Corallivore.

Normally, I wouldn't consider it, and surely would never order one, but the LFS got a nice specimen in and I watched it nibble at a clam for close to 5 minutes. I have a clip that I shot for any non-believers.

So my questions is, if this thing is eating clams and the like, is that enough for it to thrive and does any one here have experience getting an obligate corallivore to survive on a diet that does not consist mainly of coral.

This is a fish I have always wanted, but never let myself own and I am very seriously considering it. Live clams, mussels, and oysters are all ready part of my daily feeding regimen, so it wouldn't be a major change in feeding habits for me.

All right, let the opinions start a flowing. If i'm going to do this, it's going to be tomorrow.

http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/caribfan/media/IMG_1519_zps4bcc5037.mp4.html

 

[SDguy]

Very very often feeding. People seriously underestimate how much a butterfly fish eats normally to survive. Nibbles mean nothing, IMO. If you can maybe satisfy those nibbles once an hour, maybe you can get somewhere eventually.

 

[caribfan]

I was hoping you would weigh in Peter.

Hourly feedings is pretty much what I had expected.

For me, the really enticing part about this fish is the fact that its all ready interested in a clam one day after arriving. The few times I've seen these types of butterflies come in they usually aren't even interested in anything that's not a coral.

I'm still up in the air though. I'd like to hear from Ambition, if I'm not mistaken he's been keeping a larvatus for a couple years successfully.

Thanks for the input, I will keep the thread updated.

 

[bullitr]

I had mine that loves acropora but I weaned it off to mysis , brine and pellets just to be wipe out by velvet from the joculator .

Anyway I feed 6-8 times a day so its not a problem with me.

 

[Ambition]

I have not kept a larvatus yet. It is one of my dream fish, but not something I am ready to take on considering that I don't have the time to feed it as often as it should be fed.

I will say that the interest in food is a very good start, but I would not jump into this without thoroughly weighing out what you'll need to be able to do as the owner of the fish. If you have the time, experience, and patience I think it may be worth a shot. I'd weight for further information from people who have hands on experience working with this species.

 

[neoyhng]

I have a chaetodon lunulatus (kind of the same thing as larvatus) in my reef tank (I must have been crazy) for over 1 year now. To my observation, it is not an "Obligate Corallivore", but it is true that it only eats meaty stuff attached to hard surface. My healthy SPS colonies are largely untouched but branches that seem unhealthy are always becoming targets.

I knew there are people who successfully keeping these "Obligate Corallivore" by feeding them meaty paste on coral rubble. This requires a lot of work everyday and a dedicated tank since they usually compete poorly with other fishes.

 

[Big E]

It looks like a healthy specimen, which is always half the battle with any BF.

I'd give it a shot with a dedicated set up so it isn't competing for food. I do agree with Peter........... if that fish really liked that clam he'd be devouring it in big chunks..........but it's a start.

Make sure you use the exact same clam the store is using.

 

[caribfan]

All right, this is good feed back from everyone, I really appreciate the thoughts.

I'm encouraged by the fact that people have kept this fish or others similar to it with some degree of success. I am prepared to go the extra mile with the feeding regimen.

I will say, this particular butterfly seems a bit feisty, which actually makes me kind of nervous. He was picking on most of the fish in the tank he was in, including a goldflake angel.

I'm definitely leaning towards picking it up, but i'm going to wait for a few more replies. A friend of mine may also be bringing in some flashing tile fish for me today or tomorrow, and if that happens, the butterfly is a no go as I don't have the quarantine room for both and i've been waiting for flashing tiles for a long time.

I'd be curious to know what the meaty paste is made of up on the acropora branches if anybody has any specific ideas. Seems you could include pellets at some point into that paste and over a long period of time potentially ween the thing onto pellets...pipe dream. I can't wean most of the fish I have currently onto pellets, other than my potters angel strangely enough.

Keep the thoughts coming.

 

[caribfan]

Anybody else?

I'm going to stop by the shop on my way home from work tomorrow and see how things are going. If it seems to have lost its appetite, I'll pass.

I'm also still waiting to hear on the flashers, they may come in tomorrow during the day, in which case I'll be passing as well.

Then there is the issue of a tiny regal and Venustus on NYaquatic that I'm really interested in too.

Decisions, decisions. Either way, I have my quarantine tank all ready.

Anybody else with an opinion, feel free to chime in.

 

[John Dawe]

Nice fish, I wish I could find one locally. I do have one coral eating butterfly,
C trifascoalis (Cheveron Butterfly) it will only eat frozen brine or small mysis so I hvae to add a lot to the tank. If the fish is still eating, you have a chance with it. What I did not see in he short clip was other fish picking at the clam, was the butterfly 'defending' the clam? Maybe that's why it was feisty?

 

[SDguy]

What I did not see in he short clip was other fish picking at the clam, was the butterfly 'defending' the clam? Maybe that's why it was feisty?

Likely. My butterflies do this with each other when I feed clams.

BTW, this is my first time reading this thread on a computer (not my phone). I didn't realize there was a video (link didn't show on my phone). The feeding response looks promising, and the fish doesn't look particularly thin or unhealthy. If you are prepared for the idea that the fish may never eat anything else but the clams, and that you may need to supply them likely 3 times a day at least, then I'd say consider it. I'd also keep it in it's own tank, or your fuge, or something like that.

 

[caribfan]

Well the flashing tiles are not coming. I'll post an update when I see the feeding response again today and have made my decision. Big thanks to everyone who gave their opinion, I want to be sure I make the responsible choice.

 

[caribfan]

After much deliberation, I have decided to not get this fish. I stopped by the LFS again today to see how it was progressing, and it seemed less interested in the clams than the day before.

I watched it for close to 30 minutes and while it was picking at some of the decorations in the tank, it just didn't seem as interested in the clams/scallops I asked them to feed compared to when I first saw it on Wednesday.

I think there is a good chance that had I purchased this fish and put it in a tank by itself and fed it a variety of fresh live shellfish, it probably would have started eating again, but at this point I just wasn't ready to take the risk.

It's bittersweet, because I placed my first order with NYaquatic for a baby Venustus and baby Regal, two fish that are in the stock list for my new 240. They show up Tuesday and I couldn't be more excited.

I plan to keep checking on this fish and if things turn around, I may pick it up and get it into my sump / live rock storage tank, but for now, it stays at the LFS.

I appreciate all the responses - if nothing else, they have given me knowledge for the next time one of these pops up on my radar.

 

[triggreef]

My only bf experience is with a dot dash. He didn't eat for 3wks in Qt. One day he started on live black worms, same as I was feeding all along. A week later frozen brine & mysis. Now he eats every frozen bit that hits the water, & loves flake food too. Nori & pellets are the only things he doesn't eat. Follows my hand & waits for food everyone too, he has a ton of competition in his display too but I overfeed heavy

 

[SDguy]

After much deliberation, I have decided to not get this fish.

Don't beat yourself up about it, I think you saved yourself a lot of trouble at best, and a lot of grief at worst. Plenty of "kinda difficult" butterflies for you to choose from, if you want a challenge

 

[caribfan]

Yeah, I couldn't seem to get the mitratus to survive, so what does that say about my skills...

Just so stinkin tempting. I'll probably go back and watch that fish another half dozen times until it starves at the store or somebody else buys it and takes it home to decimate their reef or let it dye of starvation.

I was encouraged to hear a number of people are having degrees of success with these types of fish. I remember when I was a teenager keeping a regal or a lemon peel was deemed impossible by many because they "needed" sponge in their diet. Food has come a long way, so I can have some hope that one day I'll be able to keep one of these fish.

 

[SDguy]

Yeah, I couldn't seem to get the mitratus to survive, so what does that say about my skills...

Just so stinkin tempting. I'll probably go back and watch that fish another half dozen times until it starves at the store or somebody else buys it and takes it home to decimate their reef or let it dye of starvation.

I was encouraged to hear a number of people are having degrees of success with these types of fish. I remember when I was a teenager keeping a regal or a lemon peel was deemed impossible by many because they "needed" sponge in their diet. Food has come a long way, so I can have some hope that one day I'll be able to keep one of these fish.

Honestly, I've come to think that it's not the type of food, but the quantity. The whole idea of needing a certain type of food, for some sort of nutritional aspect, just doesn't hold up, when you look at commonly kept butterflies and angels that ontly eat particular foods in the wild (ie corals, sponges and tunicates). I think it's simply quantity... and many of these types of butterflies simply won't eat enough of what they finally like, in captivity, unless you work your arse off IIRC the one guy in Japan keeping these types of fish feeds his clams multiple times per day, and they are kept alone, in a fuge type environment.

My butteflies eat me out of house and home. If I posted some belly shots from the end of the night, you would be shocked. I think people assume extremely laterally compressed butterflies don't eat much. It's just not the case.

 

[Big E]

Honestly, I've come to think that it's not the type of food, but the quantity. The whole idea of needing a certain type of food, for some sort of nutritional aspect, just doesn't hold up, when you look at commonly kept butterflies and angels that ontly eat particular foods in the wild (ie corals, sponges and tunicates). I think it's simply quantity... and many of these types of butterflies simply won't eat enough of what they finally like, in captivity, unless you work your arse off IIRC the one guy in Japan keeping these types of fish feeds his clams multiple times per day, and they are kept alone, in a fuge type environment.

I agree...........I don't buy the whole arguement they need coral polyps to survive. The fish need the basic protein, aminos, ect that all living things need. It's a matter of getting them to eat foods in a way they aren't used to, and providing enough of it.

Most of the easier BF species that we keep have about 80% or more of their gut contents as anemones and they don't get any of that in our aquariums.

My Muelleri BF has lived almost 10 years without me feeding worms. It gets a lot of fresh seafood, shrimp, scallops, clams, mussels and I know that's not it's natural diet.

 

[SDguy]

My Muelleri BF has lived almost 10 years without me feeding worms. It gets a lot of fresh seafood, shrimp, scallops, clams, mussels and I know that's not it's natural diet.

I'll have to get you an updated shot of my muelleri sometime.... he's BIG!

 

[tylersarah]

Muelleris are the best. Mine is about 1/2" wide, he eats blackworms and a homemade seafood blend. He's also in QT because he's sick, but that's another thread and I think you've all read it. I've had him 13 months.