Changing a female clownfish back to a male

[mwilliams62]

Okay I hope this is possible. If you find a somewhat juvenile clownfish at a LFS and seems to be the dominate one "œpossible female" of the bunch that is the in the tank and you try to pair her up with a much older fish that is a female would it be possible for the younger one to turn into a male?
The one at the LFS might be 1 ¾" maybe a year old if that and the one trying to pair it up with is over 3 ½" and about 3 years old.

 

[shifty51008]

females can't change back to males, theye can only change from juvi's to males then to females but can't go the other way

 

[mwilliams62]

Okay thanks. I was really hoping they could change.

 

[MM WI]

the small ones are never females.

 

[MM WI]

alright. I think this is more complex than the answer we are giving you. I have seen it written many times that female to male does not happen. I am skeptical. These fish change sex based on social ques or hormones exchanged based on social circustances.

I believe as fry they are like all animals XX or XY, as they become adults in nature they become males in a school near an anemone with a dominate pair. So technically as they go from juveniles to mature satellite fish they become male regardless of their genes.

We all know that the dominate fish is the female and the quickest way to pair is to add a large fist to the aquarium and later add a small male. This makes it easy to assume the adult transformation is always male to female.

I doubt it but that is the generally accepted view. Plus in the tank we are not reproducing the wild situation very well and often not at all. If you put two females in a tank I suspect they will eventually sort it. I will know soon because it did put two females in the same tank about a month ago. It takes a couple of months for them to change from male to female. I added a female perc i got from another reefer whose small male had died to a tank with my much larger female. The larger fish is dominate of course and they are now starting to act like a pair where to begin with the larger fish spent most of its time making sure the smaller one know who was boss. They have just started to share the same flower pot. Time will tell.

- Mark

 

[mwilliams62]

Well I think I bought a male last night he was much smaller then the others in the tank. So here's hoping. He will be in the QT by himself for 3 weeks unless I see no issue then he will only be in there for 2 weeks.
Then hoping they will pair up..

 

[davocean]

Using the word smaller is a bit vague.
If you had a 4" female adding a 3" clown does not mean that one will then be male.
The cutoff is about an inch and a quarter, inch and a half max to be certain your clown has not begun transformation to female, unless that clown has been kept in check by a female, and then you could achieve having a large male, though it will always be smaller than the female.
Once going female there is no going back to male.
Even if you do have a male and female, there is no gaurantee the female will accept that male, so it is best to intro in a specimen container and observe the females reaction.

 

[woodnaquanut]

If you put two females in a tank I suspect they will eventually sort it. I will know soon because it did put two females in the same tank about a month ago.

- Mark

Interesting. You know for a fact both are female? Both have laid eggs?


Let us know if you get any fertile eggs from the 'pair'.

 

[mwilliams62]

Changing a female clownfish back to a male

Using the word smaller is a bit vague.
If you had a 4" female adding a 3" clown does not mean that one will then be male.
The cutoff is about an inch and a quarter, inch and a half max to be certain your clown has not begun transformation to female, unless that clown has been kept in check by a female, and then you could achieve having a large male, though it will always be smaller than the female.
Once going female there is no going back to male.
Even if you do have a male and female, there is no gaurantee the female will accept that male, so it is best to intro in a specimen container and observe the females reaction.

My female is about 3 1/2 to maybe 4" and has been breeding since Nov 2012. The little one that I bought last night maybe 1 1/4" maybe pushing 1 1/2" if that. I did not see it with any other clownfish in the tank the others look like they had already paired off and it was basically by itself.
I don't have a specimen container so I will be doing this on the weekend so I can observe and remove if she tries to do any harm to the smaller one. But this will be done once it comes out of QT.

 

[mwilliams62]

Changing a female clownfish back to a male

alright. I think this is more complex than the answer we are giving you. I have seen it written many times that female to male does not happen. I am skeptical. These fish change sex based on social ques or hormones exchanged based on social circustances.

I believe as fry they are like all animals XX or XY, as they become adults in nature they become males in a school near an anemone with a dominate pair. So technically as they go from juveniles to mature satellite fish they become male regardless of their genes.

We all know that the dominate fish is the female and the quickest way to pair is to add a large fist to the aquarium and later add a small male. This makes it easy to assume the adult transformation is always male to female.

I doubt it but that is the generally accepted view. Plus in the tank we are not reproducing the wild situation very well and often not at all. If you put two females in a tank I suspect they will eventually sort it. I will know soon because it did put two females in the same tank about a month ago. It takes a couple of months for them to change from male to female. I added a female perc i got from another reefer whose small male had died to a tank with my much larger female. The larger fish is dominate of course and they are now starting to act like a pair where to begin with the larger fish spent most of its time making sure the smaller one know who was boss. They have just started to share the same flower pot. Time will tell.

- Mark

Please let us know about how it turns out.

 

[davocean]

OP, you can get one of these floating breeder boxes from petco or similar for a few bucks.
It really is the best way to intro.
You can tell even just in pics how the female is just sitting there curious on this guy that she did accept.
My first two tries w/ this female did not go this way, that was also obvious, no pics of that, she was darting at them way too fast!

 

[mwilliams62]

Cool I will have to get one need to go to Petco anyways to see if they have some salt mix I can get.

 

[deangelr]

I believe as fry they are like all animals XX or XY,
- Mark

Clownfish do not have sex chromosomes..

Among vertebrate taxa, only mammals and birds display universal genetically controlled sex predetermined by sex chromosomes at the time of fertilization. In these species, genes on sex chromosomes give instructions to build either testes or ovaries during embryonic development. After gonads have developed, sex steroids synthesized by the gonads influence the morphology and physiology of the brain and body (i.e. masculinization and feminization). In many other vertebrates, notably the teleosts, the process is reversed. Social cues interpreted by the brain then signal to the gonads to differentiate as male or female during sexual development. The dramatic phenotypic changes occurring within sequentially hermaphroditic teleosts require coordinated integration of social information within the brain. Neuropeptides have been identified as modulators of physiology and regulators of reproductive behavior as well as gonadal changes among sequentially hermaphroditic fishes.

 

[deangelr]

But, yes, I also believe it is possible for females to revert back to male.. It has been reported anecdotally in forums and aquariums but never substantiated...

You can imagine in the natural environment that reverting back to male may well as be suicide for the fish.. And so likely happens very rarely if at all.

 

[snorvich]

But, yes, I also believe it is possible for females to revert back to male.. It has been reported anecdotally in forums and aquariums but never substantiated...

You can imagine in the natural environment that reverting back to male may well as be suicide for the fish.. And so likely happens very rarely if at all.

juveniles become adolescents. In the right circumstances an adolescent can become either a female or a male. Females in clownfish cannot revert (although some species of fish can). If you want further discussion from an expert on clownfish, please pick up the book Clownfish by Joyce Wilkersen

 

[deangelr]

yes.. I know this book. And agree, it is a great reference! also the book Anemonefishes and their Host Sea Anemones by Fautin.. As well as Godwin's work in the late 90's

 

[MM WI]

I can't argue as I have not researched the subject at all but I have read that fish that change sexes are born XX and XY, but I have been around long enough to doubt everything i read. I will try to do some further reading when time allows. We do all know that many fish can convert either way though.

- Mark

 

[codyjp]

I waited until I found a 'male' that was under an inch. Then, he spent 3 days in a strawberry basket in the corner of the tank. Then, it was a few days of them biting on each others pectoral fins, it looks bad but they don't do any damage. Now they are two peas in a pod.

 

[mwilliams62]

I picked up one I am really hoping it is a male he is in the QT for the next two weeks before I introduce him to big mama... Plus I will be doing some rearranging the stuff in her tank and take her out for a day or two so she will be a little disoriented and not try to kill this little guy.

 

[codyjp]

Don't just toss the fella in there straight off! Give him time in view but protected. Watch for damage once he's introduced and pull him if something gets hurt. The proper courtship looks terrible but he shouldn't be hurt it injured.