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I am running 5-400 watt MH and and ic 660 do you think a few watts means that much? If you are worried about saving 1-2$ a month you are in the wrong hobby JMPO. I have had BK, KZ, MRC, ASM, Old downdrafts over my last 18 years. So I am giving a very honest and unbiased opinion. So I am telling you this skimmer outskims my old BK 250 which was almost 3 times as much when you add the shipping. Atleast 2-3 times larger taking up more space and a PITA to take out of the stand to clean. So take that into effect I can run a large pump for YEARS without ever saving what I had originally in the BK. Whatever makes oyu happy. I have had both and I am telling people my experiance with BK. For the money I know where my money would go again.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10447426#post10447426 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Or just buy a beckett and put another $600 back into your pocket instead of the KZ. Come on... do you really think that drilling a few extra holes in the thing and using a 'funnel' shaped body makes it that much different than a MRC, Barr, PM, Trigger, Aerofoamer, etc? Its a beckett, which means back-pressure on the pumps, and less air intake. The KZ's get away by having the skimmer in such shallow water, and having such narrow body's... so it looks like alot of bubbles... and there better be with such a a high wattage pump. But make no mistake, plug in a watt meter to that thing and see the electricity add up. As of yet, no injection system is going to beat an asperating pump for efficiency... except for a linear air pump fed skimmer.
 
im sure your honda does the same job as my gas guzzling mercedes benz....ill take the bk as ive owned the skimmers you listed times 2.
 
Wait, back up a minute...

Well, sure, but if you are running that much wattage in light (over 2500watts is enough for a 1000g if you set it up right), you must have a 600g + tank in the first place.... in which case why would you just be using a KZ small or BM250 in the first place? Both of those skimmers are WAAAAAAY undersized for the size tank you must be running. Your skimmer should be in the 85-150 watt range as a needlewheel, and 300-500 as a venturi/beckett/etc. Not a small Aquabee 2000/1 pulling what... 28 watts maybe?

Lets be realistic here. The KZ small you have is run by a Aquabee 2000/1 and in this configuration must pull only about 400lph of air. Yet its rated for up to 396 gallons by KZ: Yeah, right, on a good day. I wouldnt run that on more than a 125g the way I stock a tank, there is just not enough air interface created with only that much air intake to skim a larger tank. At a bare minimum, with the most effective skimming methods on a tall skimmer, you still want about 4l/h of air per gallon of display. Sure, the KZ may look like its pulling tons from your water, but thats what happens when you run an undersized skimmer on a large tank... there is just alot more nutrients in the water, so the smaller skimmer has an easier time where a larger skimmer has to work harder because its skimming more than the tank can produce after the first few weeks of service. So the smaller skimmer looks like its performing better... but unless you have taken organic tests to compare before and after, its all relative.

A BK250 pulls 2000lph of air (and this will increase to even more with the loopwheel) and is rated for tanks up to 525 gallons... which is more realistic IMO. Id go more like 250 gallons with it, maybe 300... but still... its a much larger skimmer in every way. Perhaps too large for your system? I dont know what your tank looks like, or specs or anything, so I cant comment.

You gotta look at how the skimmer is sized with the system. With short/bubbleplate style skimmers like the BM and BK (and ATB, etc) the bubble efficiency isnt as great as with a taller skimmer, sure, so you need to match the skimmer size better with the actual bioload of the system. You often see bubbleplate skimmers performing better on tanks with a high load, as if there isnt enough to skim in the water, the bubbles pop in the neck more and less skimmate gets into the cup. Something tells me that the BK250 on your system was too large, and it hit the point where it couldnt skim anymore. So you went and put a smaller skimmer on, and sure enough... you have more skimmate because the skimmer rating isnt about the tank as it is about the inhabitants. So you just cut your skimmer size by 3/4 and sure enough... its looks like its doing so much better even though thats just because it cant keep up. You see it having an easier time making skimmate, but that is not a true rating. Try testing the organics of your water. If you have more than a dozen fish in your 600+ gallon tank, and a couple dozen corals, you will end up with a higher amount of organics that the smaller skimmer cant remove. The skimmer will look like its doing more, because its undersized, but come on.

Also, look at the ratings here. You are comparing the KZ S for $900 to an $1800 BK250. The tank ratings dont even match up. The correct KZ to compare here would be the KZ M, which is a $1750 skimmer!!! Same price. Taller and skinnier, and with an Aquabee 6000, you are talking about 800lph of air maybe (as a needlewheel it could be double that). Its rated for up to 924 gallons, but I think we can tell that KZ's ratings are very liberal at this point. Id say for a 400-500g tops.

I bet if you put the KZ M on your system, as low a bio-load as it must be, you would have similar problems as you had with your BK250. You must not have alot of fish or corals in that huge tank of yours.

And as far as wattage goes, no, running such an undersized skimmer on a tank with over 2000 watts of light prolly isnt a huge deal if its needlewheel or beckett, or whatever. But if you have a decent bioload of fish and corals, your tank will need something larger... and then we are talking much higher wattage like I mentioned above. And then its not about the cost in electricity, but the heat.

This is where a needlewheel pulls away. A needlewheel can get more air intake with a smaller pump. So that 100 watt Aquabee 5000 thats acting like a 50watt heater (yes, same as a 50 watt heater!) is more of a thorn in the side than a BK running at 45 watts total.

And KZ wants to have an actual utility patent on their skimmers? Come on. I bet that patent gets denied because its already patented by someone else. Whats to patent? Beckett has a patent on the nozzle. The cone shaped body? Wait... ATB, ATI... they all have it too. The plankton-friendly claims are bogus as well (captive reefs dont produce plankton in the water column like the open ocean).
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10447545#post10447545 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by j.prostrata
I am running 5-400 watt MH and and ic 660 do you think a few watts means that much? If you are worried about saving 1-2$ a month you are in the wrong hobby JMPO. I have had BK, KZ, MRC, ASM, Old downdrafts over my last 18 years. So I am giving a very honest and unbiased opinion. So I am telling you this skimmer outskims my old BK 250 which was almost 3 times as much when you add the shipping. Atleast 2-3 times larger taking up more space and a PITA to take out of the stand to clean. So take that into effect I can run a large pump for YEARS without ever saving what I had originally in the BK. Whatever makes oyu happy. I have had both and I am telling people my experiance with BK. For the money I know where my money would go again.

this pic is for J prostrata, 900 dollars well spent

108559Aquafrags1_041.jpg
 
Paulairduck, I can get my skimmer to do that too... its a DIY setup... a retrofitted AquaEuro265 recirc with a Sicce PSK 2500 threadwheel pulling 1000lph. If my skimmate makes it to 1/2 way in the cup (24-36 hours), I get bubbles flying out of the lid as well. Keep in mind, my tank is 1/2 the size (125g compared to prostratas which is over 200g).

One thing to get any skimmer to go crazy like that is to vodka dose... the skimmate production will just about double.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10790954#post10790954 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
One thing to get any skimmer to go crazy like that is to vodka dose... the skimmate production will just about double.

Could you elaborate on that by any chance?
 
the vodka acts as a carbon source for increased bacteria growth allowing them to consume more NO3 and PO4 from the water column. the bacteria are removed by the skimmer
 
Vodka dosing is nothing new, so you can easily find info on it around the forums here. The basic concept is that the alchohol provides a carbon source for bacteria... bacteria which consume nitrates and phosphates (and other organics). Then, with a good amount of skimming, these bacteria are removed.

Since I started dosing (everclear/95% ethanol, 8ml per 100g) on my tank the water has cleared, and nutrient levels have dropped. My skimmate is nastier too. I havent changed the water level or anything, but the skimmate is darker, and there is foam that collects in my cup that just sits there and dries... the bubbles dont pop. This is the gunk that builds up and then gets shot out the holes in the lid like the pic above.

Putting a skimmer that is too small for a system is another way to get a overflowing shot like that... the skimmer is simply producing alot more than its capacity. The best way to compare a skimmer is to test the system's water... how clean the skimmer can make the water. Not what ends up in the collection cup.
 
Hahnmeister - This vodka thing has me very interested. How do I know how much to dose? Is there some sort of chart I should follow? Will this eliminate the need for phosphate remover? I have a 125 gallon SPS tank.

Also, a little off topic, I'm running a Giesemann 230 fixture that has 2 x 250 watt HQI double ended and 2 x ATI T5 atnics. I'm ready to replace my present bulbs which are Giesmann Marine 10,000K bulbs. Any suggestions for new bulbs??

Thanks!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10791783#post10791783 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Vodka dosing is nothing new, so you can easily find info on it around the forums here. The basic concept is that the alchohol provides a carbon source for bacteria... bacteria which consume nitrates and phosphates (and other organics). Then, with a good amount of skimming, these bacteria are removed.

hahnmeister,

yes, i am aware of the vodka, or sugar dosing, read a few of the main threads that talked about this, as well as randy's article & thoughts on this as well a while back - i was just not making the direct connection with this.

Thank you for the thorough explanation though!

--marco
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10794652#post10794652 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ksed
Hahnmeister - This vodka thing has me very interested. How do I know how much to dose? Is there some sort of chart I should follow? Will this eliminate the need for phosphate remover? I have a 125 gallon SPS tank.

Also, a little off topic, I'm running a Giesemann 230 fixture that has 2 x 250 watt HQI double ended and 2 x ATI T5 atnics. I'm ready to replace my present bulbs which are Giesmann Marine 10,000K bulbs. Any suggestions for new bulbs??

Thanks!
How about a new thread for that. Dont want this thread to wander that far off topic!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10797429#post10797429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jwccwj
So were the supermarines at Macna???

no but the mini BKs were and i saw at least 3 people buy once
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10790954#post10790954 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Paulairduck, I can get my skimmer to do that too... its a DIY setup... a retrofitted AquaEuro265 recirc with a Sicce PSK 2500 threadwheel pulling 1000lph. If my skimmate makes it to 1/2 way in the cup (24-36 hours), I get bubbles flying out of the lid as well. Keep in mind, my tank is 1/2 the size (125g compared to prostratas which is over 200g).

One thing to get any skimmer to go crazy like that is to vodka dose... the skimmate production will just about double.

I just think you dont like KZ skimmer's:eek1:

from what I have read about MR pohl doesn't make me happy, But it's too late, I have already contributed to his MAD PATENT FUND !!!:bum:

SORRY !!!
 
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