Check out Klaus's new badboy prototype

[old salty]

Anyone have any idea on how these pumps (the A/C ones not the D/C) are being configured for U.S. 60Hz electricity? I am aware that Deltec has the ability to do this; I'm just curious as to how the others are going about it.

I can only imagine that it takes an awful lot of time to spec a skimmer to perform at peak efficiency. Adding another 10Hz to the cycle certainly creates a whole new dimension.

 

[Reefflections]

Just want to catch a ride with this post.As for future developments on this cone type of skimmer here:eek1:

 

[hahnmeister]

old salty, deltec digital pumps arent DC... they just have controls to 'tune' the pump while in use. FWIW, the DC pump eliminates the concerns of power factor, real power vs. RMS, phase, speed control, torque at startup, speed control, etc.

As for 50hz vs 60hz... all that is required is a different AC/DC transformer, which is really a piece of cake with DC motors. If there is one for 50hz, the one for 60hz may only need a different plug and resistors, as the conversion to DC eliminates the frequency difference. For once, us Yanks and those in the EU would be running the exact same pumps!

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

It really is a wonder why they don't make DC pumps the norm for aquaria. Seems like they are superior in just about every way. Is the cost prohibitive?

 

[old salty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10423936#post10423936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
old salty, deltec digital pumps arent DC... they just have controls to 'tune' the pump while in use. FWIW, the DC pump eliminates the concerns of power factor, real power vs. RMS, phase, speed control, torque at startup, speed control, etc.

As for 50hz vs 60hz... all that is required is a different AC/DC transformer, which is really a piece of cake with DC motors. If there is one for 50hz, the one for 60hz may only need a different plug and resistors, as the conversion to DC eliminates the frequency difference. For once, us Yanks and those in the EU would be running the exact same pumps!

I think I need to go back and read everything all over again. These new skimmers will have pumps that have transformers for DC (ala Tunze streams?) If so, then I am no longer confused; actually quite excited.

The reason I was asking is because a fellow reefer has a BK skimmer (not sure which model) and has stated something along the lines of his RD pump has a short life because of the 60Hz we have in the U.S. of A.

 

[Jim_S]

Yes, the RD's had restart problems on the US 60Hz cycle due to low torque. Not sure if it shortend the life or not. Claimed to be fixed, but I don't own one so I cannot say first hand.

And yes, RE is/has been working on a DC dragon pump!!! Fully controllable.

Hahn posted this in the thread earlier.

 

[tacocat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10425521#post10425521 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimdogg187
Yes, the RD's had restart problems on the US 60Hz cycle due to low torque. Not sure if it shortend the life or not. Claimed to be fixed, but I don't own one so I cannot say first hand.

And yes, RE is/has been working on a DC dragon pump!!! Fully controllable.

Hahn posted this in the thread earlier.

Hey I recognize that. Yeah there's one already in states. I saw it a few months ago at a friend's house. They were still tweaking it.

 

[Fliger]

Dern - somewhere Klaus addressed the 50/60Hz thing, he has a device - IIRC it runs electrical current to US specs, and he optimizes his pumps from there. I searched thru the LONG thread on zeovit and couldn't find the pix. I could be wrong - I'm sure he'll chime in.

As far as Deltec doing it, is that correct - or is it Eheim and Aquabee that make those adjustments for US 60Hz? Actually - I'm not really sure the Eheim or Aquabee do much at all - just change the plug. The reason I say that is that an Eheim 1260 on a Deltec or H&S skimmer in the US pulls +900LPH while the same pumps in Europe draws +600LPH. An Aquabee that pulls 650LPH here pulls much less on 50Hz. The impeller spins faster and draws more air - yet Eheims are built so well that they still operate well over here. So ironically the Deltecs and H&S skimmers are actually designed to be run with much less air (an AP702 would only draw ~1,300LPH on 50Hz). I believe that Red Dragon is the only pump that really changes across the pond - an RD2000 supposedly will pull 2,000LPH on 50Hz - same as here.

This is all stuff way in the recesses of my brain - but I'm pretty sure that its accurate unless something changed.

Also - the pumps stalling was an issue early on, the few cases were all over the boards - but it has been fixed. My RD2000 never once stalled and never once failed to start. And I turned it on & off all the time to show my friends how dead silent it was. The sound of the bubbles popping is literally louder than the pump itself!

 

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10383194#post10383194 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DeltecRules
I wonder how much these babies are going to run. :eek1:

5000% markup easily...for acrylic! Lovely looking skimmer though.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Damn right! F#$#$#% China.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10420037#post10420037 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
Sure.... The nation of China has a long and terrible record in regards to patent infringement, environmental policy, and human rights, all to save consumers a couple of bucks. Yeah let's cut them some slack.

It seems kinda rude that whenever an innovative design shows up, people always post about how they can't wait for the Chinese knock offs to start showing up. It would probably be best to show the manufacturer some respect for their innovative ideas and start that discussion in another thread.

Getting back to the skimmer:

I really like this design a lot. It's very compact. I'm assuming the red PVC pipe is a wedge pipe. It looks as though the output is designed to be submerged. This has been a big time no-no for every needlewheel (Grotech too) I have owned and played with.

The outlet doesn't have a baffle to prevent microbubbles from entering, so either this bubble plate really reduces the turbulence, or submerging the output creates enough back pressure so that the microbubbles aren't drawn into the output.

 

[Jim_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10426217#post10426217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
Damn right! F#$#$#% China.

Don't get me started on this..... too many things about that country and its policies that are just....well.... lets just say "messed up". And everyone in this country is breathing down OUR presidents neck like he's Pol Pot.....

Thanks for the insight Fliger. I have also wonderd about the the deltec/eheim issue as well.

Whats really confusing is all the talk about how Deltec and H&S match the pump to the body, but they use the same body in the US as in EU but add air intake.... how could that be matching? Shouldn't they change the skimmer body in some way when they add air?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Fliger]

I dunno Jim, I just know they work well here (H&S and Deltec). I think we get the advantage of more air - but yeah you're right - I've brought up the "matching" thing before. I've also brought up that US reefer's experiences might be different than another reefer's experience elsewhere using Eheim/Aquabee NW skimmers. Like a Deltec 1003 here would actually operate like a 1004 elsewhere, and an AP702 here would outperform an AP702 elsewhere. OTOH, I've also noticed that of the H&S and Deltec skimmers I've run - they do run extremely well with the air dialed back. I don't think they really change the ratings either, which seems odd.

I think thats why people report that an Eheim circulation pump alway seems to blow away a Mag 9. Because it probably does for the same reason.

Also, moonpod had some RD circulation pumps. IIRC, he said that the RD that was supposed to push "X" amount of water was far more powerful than US pumps that pushed "X". I hope I didn't get that backwards, but he and I talked about the fact that RD's might get a slight boost over here. Also that was in the first batch of RD's in the US so perhaps they weren't as optimized as they are now?

I would really like to know if the new BK's over here are being fitted with smaller pumps? My BK300 came with a 2,000LPH pump and PA is showing now that its 1,500LPH. There is a drop in air on all of the BK models except the Minis.

 

[theatrus]

For what it matters (and being pedantic), you can't make a pure DC pump without brushes - which obviously won't work with an isolated magnet impeller. The control box probably contains a switching power supply (easy enough to make universal voltage/freq these days) and an appropriate PWM circuit along with some intelligence to match the PWM with the impeller position. Aka, its an AC pump, but not direct-driven from the wall AC. The actual pump frequency and drive is controlled by some logic/microcontroller, not just blindly switching coils 60 times a second.

There, I'm done being pedantic . Moving to high power factor controlled switching designs like this was done awhile ago with lighting (electronic ballasts).

 

[theatrus]

And for US/European pumps, the reason many Eheim pumps go a little faster in the US is exactly for the 60/50Hz difference. The coils are rewound to accept 120V, but the number and position usually is not (or not changed in exact proportion needed for the frequency change), so the pump can run up to 20% faster on 60Hz.

 

[xinumaster]

Korallin already started selling the cone type body.

http://www.fragfarmer.com/Korallen-Zucht-Revoloution-Skimmer-S-p-958.html

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Theatrus, if it is the case that these DC pumps are actually "AC," then how is it that they always start in the same direction when "normal" AC pumps have a 50/50 chance? I'm not doubting, just would like to know.

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10425267#post10425267 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by old salty
I think I need to go back and read everything all over again. These new skimmers will have pumps that have transformers for DC (ala Tunze streams?) If so, then I am no longer confused; actually quite excited.

The reason I was asking is because a fellow reefer has a BK skimmer (not sure which model) and has stated something along the lines of his RD pump has a short life because of the 60Hz we have in the U.S. of A.

Beyond what the others have stated, I just wanted to add that Tunze streams are not true DC pumps it turns out. They are merely low-voltage... but still AC. There has yet to be a mfg that has a true DC 'stream' style pump. I wish someone would too.

 

[invincible569]

Wow, I want one! Love the black instead of white.

Is PA the distributor or Captive Oceans now?

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10426895#post10426895 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aninjaatemyshoe
Theatrus, if it is the case that these DC pumps are actually "AC," then how is it that they always start in the same direction when "normal" AC pumps have a 50/50 chance? I'm not doubting, just would like to know.

Yes, DC is always unidirectional startup. A/C pumps can be unidirectional as well, but it means you need at least a two-pole design, and it doesnt eliminate the potential for 'sputter' at the startup.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

xinumaster, nice link! Seems like we need someone to take the plunge and buy one to give a review. If only I had the money at the moment...