Chemiclean in SPS tanks

[acroholicreefer]

I have been battling cyano for a while now, ever since my tank was set up. I'm running a new system that was first started in July 2013. Around early October I started to aggressively try to get rid of this cyano. At first, I did a lights out for 5 days. This reduced the cyano to almost nothing but it immediately came back. Ever since then, I have tried numerous things to eliminate this algae. Here is what I have done:

- Switched from LED back to MH (250w SE)
- Consistently done water changes bi weekly (approx 35%)
- Gone through two periods of Lights out for 4 consistent days. Once in mid October and another time in Late December
- Gutted the RO/DI unit and replaced all filters, DI resin, and membrane
- Siphon as much algae out as possible during water changes but it grows back a couple of days later.
- Purchased 2 mexican turbo snails and 1 urchin to try to control algae
- Running GAC and GFO 24/7, phosphates are down to .04, checked with Hanna
- Added a ball of Chaeto to the fuge to control phosphates.
- Wet skimming with an oversized skimmer. Reef Octopus SCC 3000i

I'm starting to get more aggressive with this now. This past Saturday I doubled the GAC and GFO and now the phosphates are undetectable. Although I believe this is helping some with the cyano, I feel that this is coming at the cost of the health of my sps corals. 1 Maricultured acro that was been growing with polyp extension now doesn't have any polyps showing. Same thing with a montipora that was growing well too. I don't believe that I can successfuly run this much GFO in my system.

I also want to note that I have had several tanks over the years with 10+ years of experience in the hobby. This is by far the worst cyano that I have ever had. Here is a link to a thread in the Reef Chemistry forum. I originally thought it might be turf algae since I have never seen "red slime" this purple before but I am certain that it is cyano.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2339956

I'm at the last resort. I cannot decide if I should use chemiclean. After doing some research, it appears that some have good results with this and some do not. What should I do? Should I let this thing ride and hope that in 6 months it will go away on its own? Or should I use chemiclean?

 

[ReefCowboy]

No need to worry, i also have had very similar issue in my tank over the past few months. CYANO is a real PITA and really hard to get rid of. I increased flow, doubled carbon...it still will come back.

I resorted to the main two products that we use that are best known to remove them: Ultralife Lab's Red Slime Remover and Boyd's Chemiclean. I used them at separate treatments and this is what i found:

Red Slime Remover: to get rid of all algae completely(if a tiny patch stays, it will grow back as soon as you remove the product) you must use a bit more than recommended.
Cons: some of my sps dont like this product. It makes the water yellowish. A blue acro and red digitadas closed polyps through treatment and are recovering now. Not that it would kill them, but something in that product bothers some corals.
It works though.

Boyd's Chemiclean: much cleaner product, no coloring to the water, no reaction from any sps ir lps. Also had to dose higher than recommended to clean the stubborn patches.
It did not rid the tank of the algae in 48hrs like it states, it was between days 2-3 that i noticed everything was clear.

They sell these in different packages, from 180gal to 900 gal treatments. I recommend you get the treatment for larger tanks since you will have enough for treatments down the line if the algae shows up in your tank again. We all do get it back again sooner or later!
Make sure you remove carbon while using, so the product isnt removed from the water.
You can use it with no concerns, it is safe and effective.

Good luck

 

[PaleHorse]

Just a quick question.

Would MH make it worst? Did you notice any difference once you switched? Also is it to late to just start over ie. cycle new rock.

 

[AcroporAddict]

Chemiclean is great. I just used it on my 465 gallon SPS tank and it works like a charm with zero bad effects. I have used it several times for years with no problems with SPS, LPS, and soft corals.

What I do before treating:

1. Manually remove as much cyano as you can before dosing the tank. In my 465 that meant blowing as much into the water column with a powerhead with strong flow in the tank, and letting it get caught by my filter socks, and rinsing them out prior to treatment. In a smaller tank, it can mean a water change prior with you siphoning out as much cyano as you can before treatment. The more cyano in the tank before treatment, the more dead cyano you have decaying in your system during and after treatment.

2. As was stated earlier, there are two size packages, one that treats 300 gallons ans one that treats 900 gallons. Same exact thing, but unfortunately, one package (300 gallon size) says to keep your skimmer on, and the other (900 gallon size) says to discontinue using your skimmer. Do not use your skimmer when using ChemiClean. Boyd needs to get their act together on their instructions.

3. Discontinue use of ozone, carbon, GFO, protein skimming, and UV prior to treatment. Dose 1 level measuring spoon of ChemiClean per 10 net gallons of water. I dump it in a filter sock. Let the chemiclean circulate for 48 hours. After 48 hours, do a minimum 20% water change. Then restart your UV, ozone, carbon, GFO etc. You can expect to have overfoaming issues with your protein skimmer for several days after using chemiclean. This will slowly go away. During treatment, if you use filter socks, you can rinse them during treatment to get rid of any cyano that gets into them. This will further reduce decay of dead cyano within the tank. Also, make sure you either have good water movement within the tank during treatment, or bubble air in the tank water. I have never bubbled air in the tank because I have 4x Vortech MP60s in the tank for circulation.

4. Enjoy your cyano free tank.

I also buy new ChemiClean when I do have to treat. I have used year old product and it does not work as well as fresh ChemiClean, IME.

 

[acroholicreefer]

Thank you for the replies. I had actually already purchased Chemiclean before I started this thread. I went with the Liquid 2 Oz formula but I am not sure if I am going to regret this purchase or not. If this doesn't work then I will reorder the powder.

 

[toothman]

I think every reef tank has cyano or at least the bacteria laying dormant somewhere. Chemiclean will disolve it in a mater of a few days, probably a oxidizing agent. It does also disolve beneficial bacteria. You need to repopulate your tank with beneficial bacteria after use, like: mb7, zeobac. You may want to also evaluate the amount of food you feed and possibly also use a sock. Suspended food can really fuel cyano.

Also surprised the urchin does not eat more, years ago I had quite a bit of cyano, the urchin was the only thing that ate it. emerald crabs, possibly jar it loose a bit, but do not eat it. Clams are also great filter feaders. lawnmower blennys are work horses. The chaeto should help, possibly check your potassium also, salifert kit. 20 k bulbs.

 

[jroovers]

I used chemi clean once and it worked. I consider it a measure of last resort. As long as you've done everything else to get rid of it, I'd use it. Are you carbon dosing by chance? If so, dial it back, you could be feeding it. Anyhow, your skimmer will be offline for a bit and will go nuts when it comes back online. Run the air as people are saying in the meantime to keep the system oxygenated. It really clears the water - I burnt some corals after I did the treatment from the light - reduce your photoperiod when doing the treatment and slowly bump it up to avoid doing the same as I did.

 

[AcroporAddict]

I consider ChemiClean a regular type aquarium tool myself, not a method of last resort, because it works quickly, is 100% effective, and does not hurt anything in the tank. I am just not the type to go weeks and weeks trying different things, siphoning it out, etc., when you can get rid of it in two days with ChemiClean.

I have also never had to repopulate the tank with beneficial bacteria either by using additives after treating with ChemiClean. The product either doesn't hurt existing bacteria enough to make any difference, or the bacteria reproduces quickly enough so as not to affect any ammonia or nitrite levels I have been able to measure.

Also, for anyone reading this, IME, some of the myths surrounding red cyano are just that. One of the first responses anyone will get if they say they need help with cyano is to increase circulation. That is BS, IME, as cyano will grow on rock 6 inches from the direct output of an MP60 with 7,500 GPH blowing on it.

And it is also not necessarily excess nutrients that fuel the growth either. I run as close to a UNLS system as you can get, and I do not feed excessively at all. Cyano absorbs nutrients directly from the water, so you really cannot starve it out of your system either. Perhaps limit its spread somewhat, but why do that and always have it in your system when you can knock it out completely in 48 hours? It is like the person that will put up with bryopsis in their system forever, weekly manually removing it and such, when they can eliminate it completely using Tech M, but are too afraid to try it.

It is a matter of choice, of course, and how much work you are willing to do, but I would rather eliminate red cyano, bryopsis, or any other pest completely from my tank and be done with it, than just control it with continual work inputs. What a drag.

 

[Crna]

I've used it, and it worked great for me!

 

[tdb320reef]

I have never had (red)cyno in my tank until putting the MH 250 radium over. I now get patches in low flow areas. I use a turkey baster and irritate it every week and seems to keep it in check.

 

[acroholicreefer]

Also surprised the urchin does not eat more, years ago I had quite a bit of cyano, the urchin was the only thing that ate it.

Yeah, that is the reason why I purchased the urchin. It does eat it but I feel that I would need 5 - 10 of these in order to keep up with my cyano.

Something else that is interesting. I just spoke with a local reefer who said that chemiclean bleached his acros. He didn't siphon out the cyano before hand but his nitrates shot up to 120 after using chemiclean. I didn't ask but I am assuming that he didn't do a water change either afterwords. Now I am a little bit more hesitant to use this. I might give it another month or so and then use the chemiclean.

 

[Borchers]

I have used chemi clean and personal experience here. Do not use a full dose!!! Use half the recommended dose. I lost every SPS I had and most chalices as well. I followed the directions and it bit my in the A***. So please start with half a dose. Also I would suggest removing the cup from you skimmer and let it over flow and air rate the water that way. It works. Good luck.

 

[AcroporAddict]

Yeah, that is the reason why I purchased the urchin. It does eat it but I feel that I would need 5 - 10 of these in order to keep up with my cyano.

Something else that is interesting. I just spoke with a local reefer who said that chemiclean bleached his acros. He didn't siphon out the cyano before hand but his nitrates shot up to 120 after using chemiclean. I didn't ask but I am assuming that he didn't do a water change either afterwords. Now I am a little bit more hesitant to use this. I might give it another month or so and then use the chemiclean.

Ultimately, you should only do what you are comfortable with, but in your above post you stated the reason the reefer you spoke with was not successful using chemiclean. Can't blame the product for user negligence.

No one should use chemiclean if they do not follow the directions.

I also can't comment on using a half dose, but in the 6-7 times I have used it per directions at full dose over the last 5-6 years on exclusively SPS tanks to mixed LPS/Softy Tanks, I have never had an issue with the product.

 

[toothman]

chemi clean can absolutely bleach acros. It is very strong. I personally would not use it again. Your tank does look a bit out of control though. Seems to be some controversery regarding disolved organics fueling cyano, I personally think it does. Try lighter or no feeding for a week and see what happens. I would also take a few easy rocks out and clean them off. You sould not really have to battle gross cyano growths, good bacteria should populate the tank, and will keep cyano in check naturally. Carbon dosing will absolutely fuel all bacteria including cyano.

 

[jroovers]

As I posted above, IME the bleaching is due to light shock. The chemi clean really really really clears the water - crystal clear - reduce the photoperiod and you won't get bleached acros. I don't think the CC bleaches the acros, it is a secondary effect. May be helpful to dose some lugol's as well shortly after you do the chemi clean.

 

[acroholicreefer]

Update:

Well after stripping my nutrients with GFO I decided it was time to roll the dice. I needed to take some course of action. I have reduce my feeding last week and the cyno just increased as it has been doing these past several months. I started to see some STN and no polyp extension due to running too much GFO. It was time to see what chemiclean can do for my system. If I didn't to anything then I was either going to have a tank full of cyano or a FOWLR tank.

Yesterday morning I did a 30% water change, siphoning out as much cyano as possible. I also removed several pieces of live rock that always seem to be where the cyano starts from. The infected rock is placed in a qt tank where it can stay there with no lights. I cut off the skimmer and removed the collection cut. Also cut off the flow to the carbon reactor and GFO has been offline for several days.

My tank is a 135g cube with a 40b sump. I am guessing that I have about 110g of water volume. I dosed 1 cap full of the liquid chemiclean solution (Treats 80 gallons). After an hour I turned my skimmer on w/o the collection cup for about 3 hours to keep the water well aerated. I also reduced the photo period to 2 hours yesterday.

So far today I am not seeing any signs of cyano and polyp extension on a couple of acros that were not showing polyp extension before dosing. I think this is attributed as much to the water change as anything else since I had ran too much GFO before. I turned my skimmer on and this guy working overload. The drainage valve is open on the skimmer so it is basically just aerating the tank.

 

[acroholicreefer]

So far today I am not seeing any signs of cyano and polyp extension on a couple of acros that were not showing polyp extension before dosing. I think this is attributed as much to the water change as anything else since I had ran too much GFO before.

The way I worded this made it sound incorrect. Just to clarify...No cyano and I am seeing polyp extension on acros that lost PE due to excessive GFO

 

[AcroporAddict]

You should treat the tank/rocks you removed from the system to the QT, or you risk reinfecting the tank if you put them back in without treating them with chemiclean. I would not trust just darkness to rid them of it.

 

[acroholicreefer]

Yep, I added chemiclean to the QT Tank.

One Week Update - No Sign of Cyano. My skimmer had been going crazy. The drain on the collection cup stayed open until Friday. I didn't add the carbon reactor back on the system until Thursday. I am sure that the carbon helped keep my skimmer in check. If I had to do it again, I would add the carbon back on the system 24 hours after dosing like the directions states.

I have seen some negative results in the corals but things are improving.

Acros - Some of my acros started to lose tissue at the base. This was concerning and I thought for sure that I am losing my acros but they seem to be doing fine now. It is hard to tell if this is from the chemiclean, excessive gfo, or both. I have a couple of acros that were only in my system for 1 1/2 weeks before dosing. All of these acros did fine with the chemiclean and did not have any lose any tissue.

Montis - My montis were struggling from excess GFO before dosing. My spongodes had very little to no polyp extension. My montipora cap lost a lot of color and the polyp have not been extended for weeks. All of my montis look great after dosing. Immediately my Spongodes looked better. It took a week for my cap to recover but it is looking great today with polyps extending.

 

[theblennyman]

I use biopellets and full dose of chemi-clean all the time and i think my corals are still growing. I am using one third of the recommended dose of the biopellets. Acopora frags and montipora frags are doing good. Although my tank if fairly new.