Chinese LED Lighting Ordering Info

[bhazard451]

Since the Chinese Light thread has gotten so big, I thought it would be a good idea to keep an OP with constantly updated info in it, since a lot of questions are being asked repeatedly.

LED types:
Asian Bridgelux/Epistar leds: typically 60lm/watt
Cree XT-E/XPG/XPE leds: typically 110+lm/watt

You can use less Cree leds and get the same amount of light as a Bridgelux fixture with more leds. Crees are more expensive however. Be careful of listings that say "Cree" but really aren't. Look for specific Cree models like XPG/XPE in the listings. None of them seem to use the newer XT-E's yet.

Color Ratios:
1:1 Royal Blue: Cool White = 10-12k look
2:1 Royal Blue: Cool White = 14k Phoenix look
3:1 Royal Blue: Cool White = 20k Radium look

Led Colors:
Cool White <-- The standard white used.
Neutral White <-- A mix between CW and WW
Warm White <-- Most yellow in appearance, but beneficial in increasing spectrum output over just CW.
Royal Blue <-- Most beneficial
Blue <-- adds some color pop to RB
Violet 410-420nm <-- beneficial
UV

These provide more appealing color "pop" to the tank, but aren't as beneficial. Use only a few of each, as they overpower other colors.
-----------
Turquoise/Cyan
Green
Red
Yellow

Optics

Optics will focus light into a specified angle, compared to a less focused, wider spread light from a led with no optics.

60 degree optics or lower = more focused, more PAR at a lower depth
90 degree optics = still focused but with a wider angle
No optics (120 degrees or more) = wide angle, less focused.

Model types

"d120": 55 x 3w leds (running at 2 watts each /530mah)
- Best value, best pricing. Some models include moonlights installed.
- Leds on PCB board can be swapped with other bridgelux leds via soldering
- No aluminum heatsink

"Nova/Apollo": 48 x 3w leds (running at 2 watts each /580mah)
- More robust build. Includes finned heatsinks, swappable non glued optics. Internals are all on "quick connect" molex plugs for easy replacement (except the leds)
- Leds on PCB board can be swapped with other bridgelux leds via soldering
- Modular power plugs. Multiple Novas can be connected together via one power plug per channel. (3 d120s would use 6 plugs, 3 Novas would use 2)

Companies:
Email them for requests. You can customize the lights how you want via most of the companies. Here are a few, but there are many more:

Evergrow- Sam Chen, Hendy, Sunny

Gehl-

Greensun- Luoke

E.Shine Systems

Reefbreeders- (US Distributor)

Pharos Led (Fathm LED, US Distributor)

Apollo Reef Led (US Distributor)

Warranty:
Most companies provide a warranty, but if a part fails, you will need to do some work into figuring out what is broken. Shipping a light back to China is very costly, so if you aren't willing to do some work like soldering a dead led with a replacement one they send you, you might be better off ordering from a US distributor of lights.

If I'm missing anything, or as more info pops up, I will add it.

 

[FathomLED]

In regards to this statement:

Led Colors:
Cool White <-- The standard white used.
Neutral White <-- A mix between CW and WW
Warm White <-- Most yellow in appearance, but beneficial in increasing spectrum output over just CW.
Royal Blue <-- Most beneficial
Blue <-- adds some color pop to RB
Violet 410-420nm <-- beneficial
UV

These provide more appealing color "pop" to the tank, but aren't as beneficial. Use only a few of each, as they overpower other colors.
-----------
Turquoise/Cyan
Green
Red
Yellow

May I ask what spectrometer, irradiance , and reflectance units you are using to achieve the validity of the statement?

Thanks in advance

 

[brad_G]

What are you calling royal blue? 440-450?

 

[Outrigger Reef]

Very good post. Can you add info on the IT models? How about a standard list for how many fixtures per standard tank specs? I see that question a lot.

Thanks

 

[megadeth72]

can you post the wavelengths next to your color descriptions?

 

[Buzz1329]

Great post. Thanks!

 

[navydave]

Great post, THANK YOU for putting this together!

 

[trueblackpercula]

Thanks for the information

 

[rjallen]

Very good post. I am not an expert just take notes. Below are the numbers for colors:
Neutral White 5000K
Royal Blue 440-450
Cool Blue 470
True Violet 400-430 Note manufacturers sometimes call this UV true UV would be below 400 and is not beneficial
Cyan/ Turquoise 495
Deep Red 660

Below not beneficial to corals add to personal taste
Green ????
Yellow ???
Orange/ Red ????

 

[megadeth72]

I'm confused on blue, I have seen many sold as blue that were 440-450 or 445

and RB as 450-455

 

[rjallen]

Very good post. I am not an expert just take notes. Below are the numbers for colors:
Neutral White 5000K
Cool White 7500k
Royal Blue 440-450
Cool Blue 470
True Violet 400-430 Note manufacturers sometimes call this UV true UV would be below 400 and is not beneficial
Cyan/ Turquoise 495
Deep Red 660

Below not beneficial to corals add to personal taste
Green ????
Yellow ???
Orange/ Red ????

 

[megadeth72]

and I'm pretty sure red is used by corals, but in nature only really available in lagoon and very shallow water reefs because it filters out so quickly in water

 

[bhazard451]

This is actually an old post that was dug back up. Most of it is old info. This was before I even tested and tried neutral/warm whites, which have a much nicer appearance over my tank. The links might not be allowed either, so a mod may need to edit them out.

As far as Fathom asking for the spectrometer outputs, one could use the led providers datasheets of the leds they used and form their own conclusions on how they feel they wish to implement their lights. Considering that your units from Pharos follow the logic above, calling it into question would call into question your own lights that you sell.

As far as PAR goes, the latest chinese light 120w that I used hits ~350 average dead center 20 inches down while raised 8 inches off the tank. The usefulness of that info is debatable, but it uses 3:1 Royal Blue to Neutral/Warm Whites for a 12k look at 100%. The latest Cree/Luxeon 180w DIY I built hits ~550.

I still follow this line of logic in implementing leds, as I have had success with it. The only additions I would add, is that the cyan (~490nm), violet (405 to 430nm) and red (630-660nm) range, along with using a few or only neutral or warm whites, are crucial for proper color rendition. Lights that do not have a full range of spectrum covered, do not look as visually appealing to me. I see the difference everyday over my tank, as my temp lighting for it has one side covered with the newer layout 120w with only neutral and warm whites, and the other side with the 180w fixture, in which half the whites are cool whites, and has about 2 leds too many in the green/cyan area. The chinese light is more visually appealing over the Cree one, despite the Cree being much brighter.

 

[FathomLED]

Actually this is not about lighting products at all. The question was what spectrometer, irradiance, and reflectance meters are you using to come to a conclusion that is perhaps not scientifically backed up. By this i mean a data sheet will tell you the spectral output yes but only the correct instrumentation will determine whether the spectrum is absorbed by the coral or rejected. Without that you are only speculating your statements. Perhaps the reason you push for evergrow for what ever interests you have in them or with them. SO to get back to the root of the question. Being that a bridgelux chip puts out a spectrum that is different from a Cree chip how can you honestly steer people into actually providing information that may in fact harm their corals. Without refelctance and irradiance measurement nor seeing the spectrum in combination as they travel through water to our corals you can not make these assumptions as no chip manufacturer takes spectrum readings through water. Therefore you conclusions can only be based on your personal tastes and not true relevant fact as you fail to mention that WW actually contains red. And at a low amperage the blue as you call it actually has green in it. A simple test would be to use a honeycomb diffused optic and look at your sand bed. It will be more than just white and blue. Also please remove us from your list as your inadequate descriptions do more harm than good.The main concern should be the health of the corals and not a promotional thread for your gain. That is why the previous thread was closed I assume. Thank you in advance as we really do not want to be a part of this but could not sit idly by while people are steered to believe what you can not scientifically prove. There are many proessional products you can choose from on the market that will show you the conclusions you draw are misleading not to mention harmful to those that may not have experience in LED technology. So please do not attempt to make this about us when the only question was what instrumentation are you using to derive you conclusions. Now that i know you are merely using data sheets without actually testing through water and not taking into consideration refraction of light etc I have no further questions.

 

[jerpa]

By this i mean a data sheet will tell you the spectral output yes but only the correct instrumentation will determine whether the spectrum is absorbed by the coral or rejected.

I would agree we need to know what spectrum are used by most of the animals we keep. However once this has been established a data sheet can tell us whether the LED in question emits light in the area of the spectrum needed. 465nm light is 465nm light no matter what object is producing it.

Without refelctance and irradiance measurement nor seeing the spectrum in combination as they travel through water to our corals you can not make these assumptions as no chip manufacturer takes spectrum readings through water

Why would the light from an LED behave any differently while traveling through water than any other light source. Aside from the filtering of longer wavelengths, which is known already, and a faster decrease in intensity than through air what great effect will water have?

A simple test would be to use a honeycomb diffused optic and look at your sand bed. It will be more than just white and blue.

Any white light source could cause this when viewed through a diffuser. I fail to see the relevance.

 

[bhazard451]

Actually this is not about lighting products at all. The question was what spectrometer, irradiance, and reflectance meters are you using to come to a conclusion that is perhaps not scientifically backed up. By this i mean a data sheet will tell you the spectral output yes but only the correct instrumentation will determine whether the spectrum is absorbed by the coral or rejected. Without that you are only speculating your statements. Perhaps the reason you push for evergrow for what ever interests you have in them or with them. SO to get back to the root of the question. Being that a bridgelux chip puts out a spectrum that is different from a Cree chip how can you honestly steer people into actually providing information that may in fact harm their corals. Without refelctance and irradiance measurement nor seeing the spectrum in combination as they travel through water to our corals you can not make these assumptions as no chip manufacturer takes spectrum readings through water. Therefore you conclusions can only be based on your personal tastes and not true relevant fact as you fail to mention that WW actually contains red. And at a low amperage the blue as you call it actually has green in it. A simple test would be to use a honeycomb diffused optic and look at your sand bed. It will be more than just white and blue. Also please remove us from your list as your inadequate descriptions do more harm than good.The main concern should be the health of the corals and not a promotional thread for your gain. That is why the previous thread was closed I assume. Thank you in advance as we really do not want to be a part of this but could not sit idly by while people are steered to believe what you can not scientifically prove. There are many proessional products you can choose from on the market that will show you the conclusions you draw are misleading not to mention harmful to those that may not have experience in LED technology. So please do not attempt to make this about us when the only question was what instrumentation are you using to derive you conclusions. Now that i know you are merely using data sheets without actually testing through water and not taking into consideration refraction of light etc I have no further questions.

I absolutely know WW contains red (but not much in the 660nm region), I absolutely know Cree XP-E Cool White also contains a lot of green in it, and if you happen to notice, why would I list fathom and several other companies that supplies lights like these if I had an "interest" in one? I couldn't care less who buys from where, and my own money buys each one I own. I agree, it would be best to remove the links, although I can't anymore. A mod would need to do so.

I also know that I have a tank filled with zoas, mushrooms, softies, LPS, and SPS lit by leds for over 9 months, and none have been "harmed". In fact, they look great. My firsthand experience is all I need, and if I didn't like the results, I would change them or ditch leds altogether and go back to MH/T5. Whether you wish to use the info I provide from my experience of leds is up to you. I find long term experiences with leds from reefers are hard to come by, and it is nice to hear of them to better everyone's setups. This is one of them. LEDs are nowhere near as plug and play in getting results as MH/T5, and older commercial fixtures have been "lacking" to say the least. A lot of people have spent thousands on leds only to find they weren't really happy with them. Just check the "going back to MH" threads.

If you want to talk about measuring which spectrum is absorbed by coral, please gather every single coral available in the trade, and measure all of them one by one. That would be very useful, but since it doesn't readily exist, I find that trying to mimic the spectrum of a MH/T5 setup works best for me. That's my opinion, which I am allowed to have. The only study I found showed spectrum being absorbed from ~410nm to ~680nm for a Favia, which is in line with what I try to do in my setup.

You keep taking my opinion as a scientific study, and end up trashing your own lights at the same time, since it uses the same principals in its implementation. Considering most professional companies only used blue/white setups, only used Cool White, and now just happen to have a wider range of leds in them, I believe very few actually had any scientifically proven lights either. Where are Fathom's scientific measurements of the Pharos lights in that case, showing the uptake of its spectrum compared to MH and the sun, from every available coral?

I don't wish to argue, but I don't wish to be attacked for my opinion either.

 

[reeferman1128]

Bhazard,

Would you still recommend the D120 for an sps dominated tank? I was thinking of 3 over a 180g. What lenses would you recommend for this size tank with 3 units? I see they are only 2 watts each... but it looks like there is enough par for sps's even 12" below the surface. Just looking for clarification I am reading everything correctly.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Olival]

Hi guys,
last friday I placed my order with Twilightgroups and was with contact with a person called Jone Chen.

Ordered a couple of 120W with the following:
10pcs blue(460nm),
15pcs blue(470nm),
24pcs(14000k),
2pcspurple 420nm,
2pcs yellow(585nm),
2pcs red(660nm)

not sure if this is the best or worst setup, but I was looking for lights in a budget to get my system started and I heard this is a common one. I've ordered the bare bone version with manual dimming. and all in all I got $333.70 (including 2 Pcs + Shipping + 4% for Paypall).
I've been kept updated where the manufacturing process is, and Jone has been really helpful so far. It rest only one point to consider a success....The product to be delivered.

I could have gone with internal dimming control (allows sunset etc...) but that would be 130 USD more, which I preferred not to do in exchange of future scale up capability with 2 more modules....I have 4x2x2, and although I heard the 2 120w will do, I'm ready to scale up. And as I have an APEX controller, I might consider some sort of DYI in the dimming knobs to replace them by the Controller module.

well that's it, at this point I'm with a mix of excitement and worry if the thing will work well. Should be delivered by Dec/28.
Though that folks accessing this thread would be interested.

 

[FathomLED]

I absolutely know WW contains red (but not much in the 660nm region), I absolutely know Cree XP-E Cool White also contains a lot of green in it, and if you happen to notice, why would I list fathom and several other companies that supplies lights like these if I had an "interest" in one? I couldn't care less who buys from where, and my own money buys each one I own. I agree, it would be best to remove the links, although I can't anymore. A mod would need to do so.

I also know that I have a tank filled with zoas, mushrooms, softies, LPS, and SPS lit by leds for over 9 months, and none have been "harmed". In fact, they look great. My firsthand experience is all I need, and if I didn't like the results, I would change them or ditch leds altogether and go back to MH/T5. Whether you wish to use the info I provide from my experience of leds is up to you. I find long term experiences with leds from reefers are hard to come by, and it is nice to hear of them to better everyone's setups. This is one of them. LEDs are nowhere near as plug and play in getting results as MH/T5, and older commercial fixtures have been "lacking" to say the least. A lot of people have spent thousands on leds only to find they weren't really happy with them. Just check the "going back to MH" threads.

If you want to talk about measuring which spectrum is absorbed by coral, please gather every single coral available in the trade, and measure all of them one by one. That would be very useful, but since it doesn't readily exist, I find that trying to mimic the spectrum of a MH/T5 setup works best for me. That's my opinion, which I am allowed to have. The only study I found showed spectrum being absorbed from ~410nm to ~680nm for a Favia, which is in line with what I try to do in my setup.

You keep taking my opinion as a scientific study, and end up trashing your own lights at the same time, since it uses the same principals in its implementation. Considering most professional companies only used blue/white setups, only used Cool White, and now just happen to have a wider range of leds in them, I believe very few actually had any scientifically proven lights either. Where are Fathom's scientific measurements of the Pharos lights in that case, showing the uptake of its spectrum compared to MH and the sun, from every available coral?

I don't wish to argue, but I don't wish to be attacked for my opinion either.

Nor do i wish to argue either. However if you go to a company like stellarnet.us you will find that there is such a device that can take these types of readings. Cost is approximately 8000 I have purchased this equipment and thus far have taken readings on this tank

which is a tank that gives us some real variety in data based on PUR which is much more useful when it comes to dealing with leds as compared to PAR. A lot has changed since you first contacted us.As we both know then result of that . And yes it would be impossible to read this data from every coral that exists as we only probably know of 1/4 of them but there are some species that are very popular among hobbyists. Taking actual readings from them is definitely a much better way to go than trying to mimic a spectrum without a spectrometer. That is why i ask what instrumentation are you usiing to mimic the spectrum? "
PUR is a much more useful way to compare LED lighting than any other method. Most LEDs emit excellent PAR, but often only ~50% of the PAR is PUR. The higher the PURAR ratio (check the spectrograph!) the more effective the LED will be for lighting photosynthetic reef invertebrates. "
That is where my concern lies even for your corals.
Again i repeat this is not about certain lights it is about the coral health itself. SO if that reef you see in the image can thrive something must be done correctly and with a scientific backing. Offering thousands of spectral choices is surely going to lead to death of certain corals. Perhaps my outlook is different than yours but i would not be comfortable with the guilt of not only possibly killing the animal but also wasting someones hard earned money. The units mentioned above will allow you to take certain specimen pieces and determine what light is absorbed and what is reflected back as non useful. I think perhaps that is a better approach. That is the only point i am trying to make. You can PM me if you have any further issues or questions.

 

[FathomLED]

I would agree we need to know what spectrum are used by most of the animals we keep. However once this has been established a data sheet can tell us whether the LED in question emits light in the area of the spectrum needed. 465nm light is 465nm light no matter what object is producing it. Agree 465 is 465 but LED do have to contend with binning which means your 465 may be +or minus and not true 465 unless you yourself can verify.



Why would the light from an LED behave any differently while traveling through water than any other light source. Aside from the filtering of longer wavelengths, which is known already, and a faster decrease in intensity than through air what great effect will water have? Refraction as air has no resistance to light. Water movement etc. The point was the spectrum readings are NOT done through water but air.So with water you also have to contend with other things found in the water column as well.
The spectrometer reading you are seeing is done in an orb or box. This is much different than the readings you will see if a cosine receptor is placed on the bottom of a tank with outside light affecting it as well as other factors



Any white light source could cause this when viewed through a diffuser. I fail to see the relevance.

The relevance is that if there is red in the spectrum already from the white light source adding more red to the unit can give you the potential of having too much. For example if you look at ths spectrograph of a ww led you will see the green the red yellow etc. Adding more to this in terms of adding a specific chip in for example a single red will amplify the amount of red overall. Again you will see things with the naked eye but there are things you need to have the proper instrumentation for to really be aware of what is going on.