Chloramine

[jrp1588]

Just found out, after 3 years of reefing, that our city water contains chloramines. I've been using an Ro/Di this whole time, but the media in it is for chlorine, not chloramine.

I only realized the issue after switching to color changing DI media and noticed its extremely rapid exhaustion. I'm maybe getting 100gal of Ro/Di water before the Di is all used up. This is with plenty of pressure and all new Ro membrane and sediment filters.

But I digress, my reading indicates you need special media to remove chloramines effectively, so I've been pumping chloramines into my tank for 3 years unknowingly. Just how badly have I been poisoning my tank?

My tank is a 75gal with about 20gal of sump that gets a 20% water change monthly and has an evap rate ~ 1gal per day. Clearly at this rate, there hasn't been enough chloramine buildup to cause deaths, but how much ammonia from the chloramine have I been pumping into the system? Despite being established, my tank has long battled with dinoflagellates, cyanobacteria, and the odd patch of hair algae here and there.

For you tl;dr people, how serious would it be to run a tank for 3 years with an Ro/Di system that isn't rated to remove chloramine?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Most ordinary Ro/DI filters seem to take out chloramine adequately. My tap water has chloramine and I do nothing special, and when I surveyed many folks for my chloramine article and sent them a kit for chloramine testing, with one exception, they all had adequate removal.

I discuss that here:

Chloramine and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/index.htm

 

[jrp1588]

Thanks, I've read through the article a few times before actually. My system uses Martiks carbon blocks. Bulk reef supply claims these aren't adequate for chloramine and instead recommends a container full of activated carbon and a chlorplus 10 carbon block. What are the differences between these carbon filters?

 

[bertoni]

I'm not sure I've heard of that type of carbon filter. Could you post a picture or a link? If it's a regular carbon block of some sort, it should be fine for chloramine, if it's replaced at reasonable intervals.

 

[jrp1588]

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store...-filters-and-di-resin/reverse-osmosis-filters

The first two listed options are what I have now. They say for chloramines I need activated carbon and the Chlorplus 10 carbon block which can both be found on this page.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store...ment-filters-and-di-resin/chloramines-filters

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Might be cheapest to buy an inexpensive total chlorine test and see if there is any chlorine in the effluent of your existing RO/DI. If there is, then you can/should worry about how to get rid of it. I would not assume it is necessarily a concern.

 

[jrp1588]

Not a bad idea, I've never seen a chlorine test kit, but then, I've never looked. They sell them through the normal fish type vendors or do I need to look elsewhere?

I've also read some of the problem is that the carbon blocks designed for chlorine remove the chloramine just fine, but do nothing about the ammonia that comes with it. Some say this is the difference between the two types of carbon. Then again, I've never heard of carbon being able to remove ammonia. All I know is something is causing my DI media to be used up at a ridiculously fast pace.

 

[jimsplace]

Would using a regular carbon block vs. the Chloramine version deplete your DI resin quicker? I have switched, but the chloramine version is much more expensive.

 

[aleonn]

I found out about the chloramine in my water supply after I started smelling chlorine in my saltwater RO/DI mix. It took about a year before I started smelling it, so my RO/DI unit probably lost its chloramine-removing properties after that period of time (even though my TDS still reads at 0). I've been using Amquel Plus to deactivate my chloramines until I change out my filters (I also got them from BRS).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Would using a regular carbon block vs. the Chloramine version deplete your DI resin quicker? I have switched, but the chloramine version is much more expensive.

No the carbon has little to no impact on the DI depletion.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I found out about the chloramine in my water supply after I started smelling chlorine in my saltwater RO/DI mix. It took about a year before I started smelling it, so my RO/DI unit probably lost its chloramine-removing properties after that period of time (even though my TDS still reads at 0). I've been using Amquel Plus to deactivate my chloramines until I change out my filters (I also got them from BRS).

FWIW, when my DI resin depletes, I can smell ammonia in the water, and in limewater it really stinks of ammonia. The ammonia is a product of the carbon breaking down chloramine.

Are you sure it was chloramine you smelled?

 

[jrp1588]

So, do you think there is any validity to the claim that carbons designed for chloramine somehow tackle the ammonia issue as well?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ammonia? Not likely. They are removed in the DI.

 

[jrp1588]

Yeah, more reading seems to point in the direction of ammonia having to be removed by the DI resin. No way around it. The chloramine specific filters are simply designed to last longer than standard carbon blocks when used with chloramine. The chloramine specif ones are made of bituminous coal while the standard are made of coconut shell.

In my research, I did stumble across a new term though. "TDS creep," apparently when your Ro/Di system has been sitting for a while, the first couple minutes of water coming out of the membrane can have very high TDS which exhaust the DI resin quickly. This video explained it pretty well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWbKnsT-kLw
I think for now I'll just order some new DI resin, finally get around to getting a TDS meter, and try a GFO scrubber for my algae issues. In a few months, I'll replace my carbon blocks with those designed for chloramine. Can't hurt right?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, we are familiar with TDS creep. It is a reason to run RO/DI systems for longer each time but less frequently.

 

[1Sik1500]

This all makes great sense to me. My DI has been exhausted after like 100 gallons. i get around 3 gallons of evaporation a day. After replacing ALL filters on my Aqua FX. it seems they need replaced again. My TDS is currently reading 001.

 

[jrp1588]

Yes, we are familiar with TDS creep. It is a reason to run RO/DI systems for longer each time but less frequently.

Haha, I meant a new to me term. I'm sure you've written a thesis about it somewhere on it. My Ro/DI water needs are pretty minimal, I just fill a salt bucket with water every 5 days or so and have that hooked up to a aqua lifter pump. Nothing is automated about my Ro/Di system, so it'll be easy just to disconnect the DI canister for a couple minutes and collect some drinking water in a pitcher.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you have a place where you can store a trash can full of RO/DI?

 

[jimsplace]

Randy, what I was attempting to ask was will more ammonia make it through a regular cb opposed to the ones made for chloramine use thus exhausting the DI media faster? I think I remember your article saying ammonia gets released from the DI first when the media is close to exhaustion. The chloramine specific cb's are like 2-3 times the regular ones.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Carbon won't bind much ammonia at all, regardless of the type. The carbon breaks the chloramine down, releasing the ammonia, and some ammonia is rejected by the RO membrane, and all remaining ammonia will be caught on the DI until it depletes, then other salts coming into the DI (like sodium) may bump off the ammonia into the effluent.