CL or Tunze Streams?

[prugs]

The tunzes do win out when the electrical consumption is figured out.
But you can't beat the chaotic flow that you could get with (2) darts hooked up to (2) 4-ways & (8) revolutions.
Obviously the tunze pay back is quicker when you tally up all the fore mentioned extra equipment. But if you really want to get frugal (thrifty), get the maxijet mods.

 

[Tigger240]

Red Sea - sure ill do books, got frags? lol jk, i like to use excell it makes things fast and easy, being neurotic helps but .. pm if you want something specific.

prugs - the maxi mods are nice and cheap as beans, but they do have their drawbacks too, and mine do leak electric. the units dont have a third prong (ground) and i think that is a major mistake, especially something that is in water.

i was honestly surprised on how long it took to break even, i thought it would be alot quicker but i knew tunzes cost alot too - and im honestly on the fence but more tunze than cl, and ive been wanting to do this for a while. i know you can buy bundles of tunze too, so you may be able to save some money there. But after doing the calcs, im even more on the fence. I can imagine keeping the same setup over four years (bigger better more), but im a more write off inital cost (quality = $$), and worry about month to month costs and keep them in mind type person. So im even more on the fence.

but i think the thing that will make the decision is that you can run a ground strap from a cl pump housing directly to the ground in the outlet, and have the third prong too, and i have a shark. There really senitive to electric leaks, but i dunno if tunze have the third prong either.

 

[Scuba Dog]

What are you planing to keep in the big tank? In my set up I went with a 4 way Om unit. Yes it was a lot of work on my back under the stand with a strap wrench and some pvc solvent, but it was well worth the effert. Im planning on having sps and great growth in time the coral will creat dead spots in the flow, at that time ill add some tunze streams. The bottom line is to have enough flow for the application. So having the option of a closed loop and streams is very appealing in my case.

 

[Ccondo]

I'm thinking a single closed loop under rock formations and tunze streams for wave effect...

 

[DaveWC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8353767#post8353767 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tigger240 i was honestly surprised on how long it took to break even, i thought it would be alot quicker but i knew tunzes cost alot too

It would be a lot quicker had you included the cost of putting a CL onto your tank. Consider the cost of drilling holes (if you go through the glass), but mainly the cost of plumbing the unit. Having spent time & money buying ball valves, true unions, spa-flex etc. I know that a simple project like plumbing a CL can add up to hundreds of $$$ really fast. Mind you, there are also costs of the Tunzes not included like the preferable setup of using magnets to hold them in place.

I'm going with a 4x6100 & 7095 Tunze system mainly because of the flexibility of placing them wherever I want... and moving them in the future. Everyone talks about the look of equipment in the water but ignores the look of the equipment on a CL system. I find loc line looks great for about a day and then becomes obtrusive. And penductors look pretty ugly too. I've also seen a lot of CL PVC structures that are exposed with bare pipes (albeit covered in algae) sticking out of rock. In the end it depends on what you like. I don't mind the look of powerheads in my tank.

 

[prugs]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8354786#post8354786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ccondo
I'm thinking a single closed loop under rock formations and tunze streams for wave effect...

I wonder how much work it is to get those rocks & pumps out of the tank for cleaning??

 

[emilese]

Trigger240,

I like the way you did the cost comparison but, if you add the costs of an OM 4-way to the initial startup for the CL system, the initial costs for the CL system is close to the initial costs for the 6100 setup. Plus, as DaveWC said, when you add in the additional plumbing, etc.. the initial costs for the CL could exceed the 6100 combo.

I love the OM units and I don't like the look of equipment in the tank but, after doing the costs analysis like Trigger240 did, I went with 2 Vortechs. I like the battery backup options on these units and the smaller design.

Miles

 

[dkh0331]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8349550#post8349550 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ruiny
Yeah the tunzes are big and can be trickey to hide well.
But on a big tank like you are talking I would think you would be able to find a way to hide them.

They can be hid. People ask me how come I have holes in my rocks.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

OK here's what I've recently done on my 7' long, 400G tank. I have a dart as my sump return. 2 1 1/2" returns over the back of the tank.

I have 2 closed loops. 1 is run by a hammerhead and also includes a large canister filter in line with it. Think 20,000 G swimming pool filter. this C/L has 4 X 1" intakes that are on either side of my overflow box. The return is 2 X 1 1/2" that comes up thru the bottom and will be coverd with rocks so as to dispurse the wate flow.

The 2nd C/L is run by a barracuda and has 2 X 1 1/2" intakes that are next to the overflow box and the return is thr a Om 4 way. 2 returns are at the bottom on one end and will be covered by the sand bed. There is a 45 elbow on the Bulkhead and so the water will be flowing up at an angle. The other 2 returns are on the other end of the tank about 4" below the water line. While running leak test, this setup gives counter rotating flow in that from the lower returns, the water flows in a clock wise fashion and from the upper returns, it flows in a counter clockwise fashion.

The intakes for both C/L's will be covered by my rockwork so really the only thing seen will be the flush bulkheads on the upper end return and the 2 holes in the sandbed for the 2 lower returns. I'll be posting pic's soon in my thread on the tank build.

Hope that gives you a few ideas. It's a little out of the norm with the lower returns but hey, it will be hidden, big factor for me, and it still gives me a good random flow patteren in the tank.

 

[Tigger240]

and if ur at $.12 a kilo hour you pay $68.70 a month just to run those pumps too.

im not flaming i bet you get some awesome results and crystal clear water but when comparing tunze to cl to vortec all points need to be looked at. the biggest point to me is my monthly bills, so thats why i focused on the electric consumption, and left others to bring up other points, but when it comes to big tanks i dont think theres any "right" method, and it sure as hell aint cheap!

 

[ruiny]

Do the deco rocks for the tunzes hold the tunze or just cover it?
What I mean is could you hold the deco rock from the top only and not have the tunze fall out, or would it fall out?
Thanks

 

[dkh0331]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8373985#post8373985 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ruiny
Do the deco rocks for the tunzes hold the tunze or just cover it?
What I mean is could you hold the deco rock from the top only and not have the tunze fall out, or would it fall out?
Thanks

It holds them.

 

[Bebo77]

have you seen what aquariumsobsessed does.. they build a box for the streams so that they act/look like a closed loop... then you get the best of both worlds...

 

[thriceanangel]

My electric bill is around $.04-.06 /kWh. So that comparison really does make the difference. I wonder how long it would take for me to justify the purchase of the tunze. I am definately going to go the dart, maxi mod route.

 

[ruiny]

Gabriel.

I looked on their site but can't find what you are taking about.
Where should I look? Or is there a part #?

 

[Tigger240]

i have no clue how much om units cost, thats why i didnt not include them in the cost. i have a $.05 kilowatt cost, but i have an $11.00 fuel surcharge for a certian amout of power used. for those that use the maxi mods, there a great idea, but they do leak electric into the tank. period. after hooking one up, like 3 months old ( i had removed it) i was getting shocked from it. oh well, i really wished they worked for me.

i am currently purchasing 2 6100 tunze tonight, ill post to report how i like them. i never had used tunze stuff before, and im beginning to think that one huff of aragonite was one too much, and that the equipment costs and running costs begin to mean little when comparied to the health of your tank.

 

[ruiny]

Tigger240

I agree with you last statment about the health of the tank.
I feel that in the end the best equipment purchase is the one that does not require replacment because it is not doing the job it should.
Same goes for livestock. The most expensive fish is the one that dies quick. My friends in the hoddy seem to like to buy the cheap fish and cheap equipment, and are always replacing dead fish or complaining about poor equipment performance.
I guess I am just saying cost is a factor but in the end we didn't get into this hobby because it makes financial sence, but because of the animals. And with in reason (my reason, not my wifes
) the equipment that takes care of my tank best is the equipment for me.

 

[prugs]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8358493#post8358493 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dkh0331
They can be hid. People ask me how come I have holes in my rocks.

How easy is it, to get those pumps out, for cleaning???

 

[Tigger240]

well its late but i have my tunze hooked up and my first impression is that its silent. i see all this crap being blown around but yet i cant hear anything and for the intial trial, it was werid to see. it didnt make sense how quiet these units are, and seeing the chaos in the tank. but i was dissapointed on what 3120 gal hr feels like, i figured it would be soo much more power on 100%. i may have tired units (2nd hand) but it doesnt much matter, i turned them down to less than 50% anyway. there kinda big, and the magnets are big too, but it really doesnt detract that much from overall apperance (read there black and blend into the black background - sort of). i do like the fact that i dont have to worry about fish getting sucked up into the intake of a cl pump however. report more later - bed!

 

[dkh0331]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8402368#post8402368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by prugs
How easy is it, to get those pumps out, for cleaning???

Easy. My wife aquascaped so nothing is on top of them. I just reach in, pick up the deco rock and pull the pump out. Less time and frustration then dealing with PH suction cups.

David