clam is bumming

[nccmike]

Hello,

I just traded for a clam and it seems that the phosban that I'm running is giving it problems.

mbbuna was nice enough to let me know this.

What can I run in my reactor to control phosphates and keep the clam?

Should I return him?

I traded some xenia for him at the LFS and did not know it would give him problems. Is he in real bad shape?

I unplugged the phosban reactor for the night.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mbbuna]

i just replied to you post in the general forum and will see if i can get them linked

 

[nccmike]

I got it.

I'm getting carbon in the morning. Going to have the phosban exit right into the carbon sock.

Sound ok?

Thanks for all the help!

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7112352#post7112352 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nccmike
I got it.

I'm getting carbon in the morning. Going to have the phosban exit right into the carbon sock.

Sound ok?

Thanks for all the help!

that should be ok but i would do a fwd also

put some RO/DI in a bucket and match the temp to your tank temp then plce the clam in the RO/DI for 20min then right back into the tank

 

[nccmike]

ok.

 

[mbbuna]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=817427

 

[nccmike]

thanks for the help mbbuna. I have a appointment this morning but after that I'm off to purchase some carbon and dip the clam for 20 min.

The clam seems to have fastened its self to the rock in the picture.
Should I just dip the rock and clam or can I safely remove the clam from the rock?

Also I have him up high under 150 watt halides. Is that a good place for him?

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7114783#post7114783 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nccmike


The clam seems to have fastened its self to the rock in the picture.
Should I just dip the rock and clam or can I safely remove the clam from the rock?

gentle tip the clam to one side and you will see where the byssal threads are attached. take a sharp knife and cut the threads as far away from the clam as you can.

Also I have him up high under 150 watt halides. Is that a good place for him?

thats the right spot for a Crocea. they are the most light demanding of the clams.


make sure you add extra carbon preferably in a canister or reactor to remove as much of the free iron as you can

 

[gophia]

Just curious, how did you link the phosban to the condition of your clam?

I some people who have had problems with their sps and too much phosban, due to the rapid drop in the alk, but this is the first I've read it linked to clams.

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7115434#post7115434 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gophia
Just curious, how did you link the phosban to the condition of your clam?

I some people who have had problems with their sps and too much phosban, due to the rapid drop in the alk, but this is the first I've read it linked to clams.

from a link to a study on how iron effected Perkinsus.

posted by Nuhtty
I have studied the effects of heavy metal toxicity in humans and the role that iron chelators play (chemicals that "eat up" iron making it unable to form molecular bonds) so interestingly I was familiar with research that studied iron chelators and protozoal infections. In this case, P. atlanticus which affects the Carpet Shell Clams.

Below I linked a study from 2003 that investigates the role of 2 such iron chelators and their effect on the protozoal infections.

I dont know your scientific background so forgive me if I am speaking down to you.

Here is what the study showed:
- Iron chelators inhibited the growth of P. atlanticus
- No growth of P. atlanticus = no dead clams
- Removal of iron chelators (therefore the ability for iron to be used in the protozoa again) = protozoa grew more rapidly

So when you added the iron to your system you allowed the Perkinsus protozoa (difficult to tell which species in this case) to grow and therefore kill your clams.

There is no known "treatment" per se, but removal of iron from the system should be all that is needed.

I would recommend water changes and removal of all clams, abalone, scallops and other similar animals from your system.

Continue water changes until your iron readings are undetectable...then do MORE water changes. I would say a good water change per week for 2 months past the time when there is NO detectable iron would put you in the safe range.

From that point on be cautious in the livestock you choose. Try to buy farm raised clams as these specimens are less likely to be infected with the protozoa.

Here are 2 links for more reading. Again, I dont know your scientific background so if you need help interpreting any of the data or you want me to help "translate" some of the scientific jargon I would be more than happy to do so.

Hope I have been informative.

(this is a PDF file so you need Acrobat to read it)
http://www.ualg.pt/fcma/edge/Articles/Elan...20chelator'

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/sci/sh.../perkincc_e.htm

This post has been edited by Nuhtty: Jan 1 2006, 01:26 PM

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7115434#post7115434 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gophia


I some people who have had problems with their sps and too much phosban, due to the rapid drop in the alk,

the problems that sps are having(bleaching,STN,RTN)are not coming from the rapid drop of Alk but from the rapid removal of phosphates

 

[gophia]

Thanks for the info, very interesting but I still don't see how you came up with a bacterial infection as your diagnosed for that clam condition. What signs do you see on that clam that is indictive of a protozoan infection?

As for the iron and prevention of Perkinsus (protozoal infections) I wonder if that would work with ick....new CURE!

As for iron base phosphate removal material, many threads, including some from Randy the chemistry god, have indicated that the those media may cause a rapid drop in the the alk which may result in rtn, stn, burn tips etc. The rapid decrease in PO4 may also be a factor.

 

[gophia]

BTW, non of those links work.

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7116176#post7116176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gophia
BTW, non of those links work.

the quote i posted was pulled from nano-reef. the links there are to medical studies that were done on iron.

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7116148#post7116148 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gophia
Thanks for the info, very interesting but I still don't see how you came up with a bacterial infection as your diagnosed for that clam condition. What signs do you see on that clam that is indictive of a protozoan infection?

the condition of the clam in the pic is classic Pinched Mantle

upward and inward curling of the mantle, slimming and if it is allowed to progress receding of the mantle then death.

Barry N. had some clams lab tested a while back and found that it was an unknown protozoan causing the condition

ive dealt with it my self for many months, tried every treatment out there at the time with out success. after i read that study i started rereading as many old threads on PM as i could find and came to the conclusion that it could be "something in our tank water" as Barry N. originally said it was. so i decided to run a large amount of carbon and run the effluent from my PO4 remover through carbon also and over night my PM cleared up and hasn't returned in 3 or 4 months

 

[gophia]

Thanks for your diagnostic. It may be pinch mantel but is it me or does it look like something is bitting the mantel. if you look at the upper right of the mantel does it not look like a bite mark.

As for treating pinched mantel I believe that there is some lab results/data which showed metronidazole to be possibe cure for pinched mantel.

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7116545#post7116545 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gophia


As for treating pinched mantel I believe that there is some lab results/data which showed metronidazole to be possibe cure for pinched mantel.

as i said ive tried every know treatment, metro, prazepro,iodine dips, multiple FWD's nothing worked. i tried them at different dosage levels, combined with each other and even tried some treatments that i never told anyone about. if you read through some of those old threads you will find that the treatments didnt work for most everyone else also..

if you look at the upper right of the mantel does it not look like a bite mark.

classic pinched mantle. ive seen it many times, its very distinctive.

 

[jay24k]

I had a clam look similiar to that. Mine was due to flow pushing his mantle up. It was in my 44 gallon at the time. I moved him down out of the flow and he opened nicely. It's possible it is PM but is it in alot of flow? I've seen several tanks run phosban 24/7 and 0 issues with clams. It doesn't mean it can't happen but if you could get a few more pictures of it maybe from the top or at least showing the mantle better.

 

[nccmike]

here are some pics after the FWD. I wish I had done some research on the clam before making the trade.

I hear that you can buy some new po4 material called reef pure that wll not introduce metals to the tank. Might try it out.

 

[nccmike]

oh yea, the only reason I made the trade was that its a aqua cultured clam.