clam mantle not fully extending weird

Omar H

New member
I've got a maxima that is not fully extending its mantle. The weird part is that only from the middle and down. The other half of it looks good and is expanding to some degree. Clam is on the sand below approximately 27-28" inches below the lamp (250w De with Ushio). It started doing this today, I've only had it for two weeks and the previous two weeks it looked ok. I also have other clams (previous acquisitions) that are doing just fine.

I wish I could post a picture but the clam is in a position where it's hard to get a clear picture, and frankly I don't want to move it in fear of stressing it more.

There is no direct current to it.

What I find odd, is that it's only doing with part of the mantle. Any ideas.

Omar

P.S. I know it's harder without a pic, thanks anyway.:worried:
 
sounds just like Pinched Mantle,do a search on it.if you have a QT get the clam in there asap or it will infect the other clams
 
That happened to one of my maximas not too long ago and quickly spread to a few other ones that were next to it. I did a fresh water dip (only recommend as last resort), but if I hadn't done it, they'd probably be dead right now. I just adjusted the ph of the Ro/di w/baking soda (ph monitor comes in handy) and dipped them for 10min. Then took them out immediately and put them in a bowl w/fresh saltwater from my tank and fed them dt's until the water was clear then placed them back in the tank. They were all fully open within a few hours and haven't got pm since. But do research first, this is a last ditch effort to save the clam because a freshwater dip could kill a clam very easy.
 
I`ve recently seen a couple of pictures of what PM looks like, and there is a chance that the problem may be something else. What I'm talking about is the mantle receding (kind of like gaping) but only for a portion of it (I need to get you all a pic!).

Last night I took it out of the sand and placed it on an old coral skeleton to see if that could help.

I see my descriptions are rather poor, so I will try to post a pic toight or tomorrow.

Thanks.

Omar
 
I owed you some pictures

I owed you some pictures

O.k.,

First pic, healthy clam on 9/23/2005:

14332mini-2005-09-30_102.jpg


Second pic on 9/29/2005. Let me remind you that it started looking like this during the day, as in the morning it was o.k. (the fact that it was so quick and during the day, lead me to believe it was physical damage by some other animal in the tank):

14332mini-2005-09-30_127.jpg


Third picture as of 9/30/2005. I moved the clam the night before and I got this shot in the afternoon of 9/30. The problem continues but does not seem to extend to the rest of the clam.

14332mini-2005-09-30_130.jpg


I don't want to lose the clam, and obviously don't want to lose my other clams. I wish I had been able to take a better picture of the inhalant part of the clam, but the angle at what it is just doesn't allow for a clear picture. It does look like "falling" and it's not as shiny as the rest of the mantle (again, a poor description on my part :rolleyes: )

Your comments are much appreciated.

Thank you.

Omar :strooper:
 
ok well if you think it was something else in the tank, what else do you have in there? list everything,fish ,crabs,shrimp,snails,everything.
 
in the last pic that you poted it look's like a pyram snail just inside the shell.do you have any small white snails about the size of a grain of rice on the clam?
 
Mbbuna,

Thanks for your observations. I check very often late at night my tank, and so far I have not seen any pyramid snails (knock on wood). Just in case, I keep a six line wrasse.

And here's my list of mobile inhabitants.

1 blue tang
1 kole tang
1 sailfin tang (need to get this one out soon)
1 green chromis (all that was left of an 11 fish "school")
1 maroon clown
1 sixline wrasse

2 or 3 hemit crabs (small in size, and I've never seen them bother any of the clams).
Pods, small limpets, and bristleworms...oh, and there is some small white crabs in the Acropora frags that I've got.

What looks like a pyramid is most likely a grain of sand, the fish sometimes get rough to each other in that area and get some sand up, or get in front of the powerheads and have the same effect. I'll look harder though as it does look like a pyramid...

Omar
 
is the clam getting better,worse or staying the same.those fish should be ok with clams,but some times when you put a new clam in fish will nip just to see what it is even if they have been around other clams before
 
PM usually has an upward and inward curl to the edge of the mantle,also you will see slime coming from where the shell and mantle meet
 
Herbert have you made any changes in/to your tank?
have you added a new clam with in 3 weeks of this starting?
 
Nothing has changed as of too recent. Let me think here...

I added a kalk reactor about a month ago...but have been tuning it a bit still to get the output just right. For a while right before the clams shut up, there might have been some 'kalk-clouds' getting released directly into the tank. My pH was still 8.5 when I checked.

I havent added any new fish, inverts, or anything 'live' in some time. I did buy and feed some DT's right before the mantle problems started.

My tank was going through some cycling issues right before this, but my corals have colored up, organics and phosphates are nil, and algae disappeared. I was using phosguard, an Al based phosphate remover, multiple times prior to this with no problems. I would rinse it well before using so that the dust wouldnt bother anything. FWIW, I had forgotten to replace the phosguard when cleaning out the old stuff just days before this started. My phos readings were nil so I wanted to see how things were without it. So for the period just a few days before the clams went into hibernation, I wasnt even using phosguard like usual.

As of today, my girlfriend said that they alll come out during the day, but they are very sensitive to people walking by and so they shut up when I sit down. Two seem better, the other two are still mostly shut.

I have looked for snails, and dont see anything. I did a 50% water change 2 days ago to dilute any chemicals that might be irritating them. I also did a flatworm exit treatment right before the water change...and my skimmer was pulling out red gunk...whole bodies even, for two days. Neither of these two things seem to change anything as far as the clams care.

OTOH, I have noticed some light patches on some SPS in the tank. Nothing major, no polyp damage, except for a bleaching of a spot or two on a few corals about 1/4" round. Except a purple digi which was very close to the kalk outlet. Shortly after the clams went into hiding, this one piece (I have it growing like a weed elsewhere in the tank, but only this one was like this) had bad bleaching in almost 50% of its body (about a 20 point piece). This piece was close to the surface, right under the halide, as well as the kalk outlet.

I have since moved the kalk outlet into the sump just in case it ever bleeds pure kalk again. The kalk reactor has also been tuned just right now. Right now, for lack of a better reason, I am going with 'kalk-burn'. Which is funny because I have mixed so much it turns into snow in the tank before, and the clams have never been bothered. But Im thinking what might have happened could have been much worse when I wasnt looking.
 
"I did not have snails in that clam"...

O.k...upon much closer inspection, here's what I found...

14332mini-2005-10-01_011.jpg


And here's how it looked yesterday...

14332mini-2005-10-01_001.jpg


I'd say that its condition seems stable. There's no worsening of the mantle condition nor improvement.

I'm not 100% sure that those are pyramids (and I still have not found them sucking on the mantle) but that's enough to start counter measures. I guess I know have a direction. Also, not all of the seemed alive, but like I said before, the possibility is more than enough reason.

Thanks to all, I'll keep you posted.

Omar
:strooper:
 
Wait a second...those arent pyramid...but were they IN the clam?

I have a colony of nassarius snails that just bred...the little ones are just starting to get to a visible size. Could they possibly be spawning/brooding in the clams?
 
im not an expert in snails.and I couldn't even begin to id those,but I do know that Pyrams aren't the only snails that you have to worry about, they are just the most common.there are many that prey on clams.

Omar. keep removing any snails that you see.check them day and night.just from that pic it looks like there are a few types there.check all of your clams and even take a few scoops of sand from under them so that you get the one's hiding there.
that's great I think you found your bug:):)
 
No they were not either in, on or below the clam. They were on the substrate, some close to the clam. but none seemed to be close enough to attack the clam at night. if you see the last picture I posted, the clam is on top of some coral skeleton(heliofungia I think), that's where If found the snails. But like I said, none where physically riding the shell. I brushed the shell, but really nothing fell of them (well pods and sand grains, the latter are visible in some of the pics I posted).

Herbert, I see where you got the notion about snails IN the clam...sorry, I was just being sarcastic on myself using a line from somebody very famous.." I did not have ...lations with that woman" . Sorry for the confusion.

This snail incident reminded me of the time when I thought I had such a great tank and then had every new addition of cleaner shrimp (I don't keep any now, o.k.) die within 5 minutes of introductiond to the tank...Guess they didn't like the plus 100ppm nitrate level on my sparking "clean" tank...

Thanks,

Omar
 
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