cleaner wrasse things i didnt know

[BeanAnimal]

There appears to be a wealth of scientific data that would indicate that your "personal experience" may be an anomaly instead of the norm.

I would hardly call published articles on the subject hearsay


http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0960982202013933
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/130/m130p061.pdf
http://gobiestogrizzlies.blogspot.com/2008/06/coming-clean-on-cleaners.html

I think the distinction need to be made between "hard to keep" and "nearly impossible to keep" and "easy to keep". For the most part, many fishes are easy to keep. Toss them into the community tank and they will find a niche a survive.

On the other hand, the common cleaner wrasse, mandrins and some other fish are very hard to keep and depend on many environmental variables to survive.

As others have pointed out (and research confirms), the common cleaner wrasse can cause more harm or stress than good. In a natural setting, they have a nearly endless supply of fish to "clean". These fish visit the cleaning stations as needed. In a captive reef, the cleaner wrasse ends up harassing most fishes and can also reduce the desired slime coats to a dangerous level.

 

[Wrench]

Those links don't mention anything about reef populations of cleaner wrasses, so how are they supposed to contradict my previous statements? What are your qualifications to comment on this topic? A 75g reef hardly provides your credibility since it can't possibly house a large enough fish population to sustain a cleaner wrasse (which was also stated in my previous post).

Sticking to my guns on this one. This fish is an asset to a PROPER captive reef in terms of parasite removal and fish health. Had I gotten a few fish to live I may entertain the idea that my case is an anomoly, but 23 fish with 90% success rate over 18+ months? I don't think so.

1.)Acquire healthy stock from dealers/vendors that utilize ethical collection practices.

2.)Acclimate the fish properly

3.)Introduce the fish into an APPROPRIATE system of 100g minimum, healthy fish population and proper husbandry practices. This is no different than adding a Naso tang to a 30g tank and expecting it to thrive long term.

 

[syrinx]

Its all about collection and shipping of cleaner wrasses- I have seen almost 100% loss from some importers and 90% success from others. Nutritionally speaking the cleaner wrasse can adapt to prepared foods- as is proven by the longivity records. There is no question the fish has some issues- but none less than many other fish we commonly keep. Would I recomend it to a novice, or someone that didn`t "have to have it"? No-but they are much easier than many of the things we readily keep- if they are properly collected and maintained properly. The articles don`t help the argument against- esp the scott michaels one...........

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13988555#post13988555 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wrench
Those links don't mention anything about reef populations of cleaner wrasses,

I did not say they did. I merely posted a few links to some articles on the subject that were relevant to some of the components of the discussion and interesting.

What are your qualifications to comment on this topic?

I was not aware that one needed "qualifications" to comment on a topic, but thanks for the insult. It certainly puts context to where this debate is headed.

A 75g reef hardly provides your credibility since it can't possibly house a large enough fish population to sustain a cleaner wrasse (which was also stated in my previous post).

You have questioned my credibility based on the size tank listed in my profile and further wish to infer that I am basing my comments on that tank? At the same time, you are using your "personal experience" as a measure of my credibility (or lack of)? Again, I can see where this is headed. Have fun...

 

[Purplerock SD]

I can add that even when well fed in large aquariums, they do tend to harass many large fish. Some fish they are particularly hard on, in my experience, are: Lookdown Jacks, all pufferfish, Lionfish. I have seen them literally pick holes in the sides of lookdown jack's heads. I have one that has been in a 400 gallon tank for about 6 years, fat and happy, eating nothing but fish skin and spectrum pellets for the last two, but it certainly does herass the other fish. I wouldn't reccommend it because of the way it can really harm many species in large aquariums. Sure, shipping varies, but they are not worth the effort as stated earlier, they don't seem to eat parasites anyway.

 

[snorvich]

In general, cleaner wrasses do not do well in aquaria, especially smaller aquaria with an inadequate number of clients. Remember that not all fish will allow cleaning behavior, and those that do, will not tolerate cleaning behavior as frequently as cleaners wish to clean. In the wild, cleaners have a huge number of potential clients and establish cleaning stations that are periodically frequented by the same fish over time. But this periodic visitation by a lot of fish provides adequate nutrition for the cleaners but from the perspective of a single fish, they ONLY visit cleaning stations periodically and when they wish to be cleaned. There is a posture the client assumes when it wishes to be cleaned that invites cleaner behavior.

Oh, I forgot. Qualifications. 18 years of saltwater aquaria, 3200 saltwater dives. About 1000 gallons of saltwater in house.