closed loop systems--yea or nay

[ruppel]

I'd like to hear peoples' opinions and experiences with closed loops vs powerheads. Things like "I wish I'd done this..." or "Mine's perfect this way..." Does anyone regret using a closed loop system? I'm trying to plan out my future tank (probably 120-180 gallons) and have no experience with them.

Thanks.

 

[Buster4900]

I sure like my closed look in my 110 gallon. Definately would do it again. No power heads to mess with.

 

[ruppel]

Buster4900--How is your closed loop arranged? Do you have holes in the back of the tank? How many? How do you direct the flow?

Enquiring minds want to know...

 

[M. Python]

Closed loops are easier and less of an eyesore, I like my set up. The only down side is noise depending on what pumps you use. Power heads are silent.

 

[ruppel]

Well, the other drawback, I would think, is that you're stuck with the arrangement you started with, whereas powerheads can always be moved.

 

[Anemonebuff]

Tunze Streams give better flow and it sounds like the Vortechs will have even better flow.

 

[ruppel]

The cool part about closed loops, I would think, is that you can arrange the plumbing around and through the rockwork.

 

[zemuron114]

tunze are alot of money. I have a sequence 4300 for a return and it is very quiet, and pushes a lot of water. I like the fact that you can put the CL anywhere. Tunzes leave lots of dead spots around the rockwork and different places.

 

[Ironman]

I'm kinda on the fence with my closed loop, pros and cons to it like everything else I guess.

 

[creep]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6948035#post6948035 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ironman
I'm kinda on the fence with my closed loop, pros and cons to it like everything else I guess.

can you list your pro's and cons. I too am debating a closed loop on my next tank.

 

[Qwiv]

I have a 180 and I use both. I wanted to move a lot of water in my tank and needed to do so without throw a lot of money to PG&E every month. I have (2) Tunze 6100 in the tank to meet the needs of basic water movement. I would have a lot of dead spots if this was my only way to move water, but they are the cheapest way to move 6000 gal/hr of water if you factor in elec. costs. I have a ampmaster 3000 on a closed loop with an above tank manifold with loc-line eductors. I can aim these to get all the dead spots in the tank. My return pump is on a sea-swirl to give a light wave flow to my BTA's.

This is not cheap, but I can meet all the needs of the tank.

My advise would be to start with a CL and add powerheads later if you need them, because doing it the other way doesn't make much sense. A well designed tank with an external overflow and a CL looks really sweet, because there is no plumbing and equipment to see.

 

[Ironman]

I was somewhat limited in directing the flow using my plumbed spa jets.

I'm going to revamp my system by using my Sea Swirl and flexible tubing in conjunction with the spa jets on my tank. Next time I get a tank drilled, I would get four return holes instead of two. I would have been able to do more with an extra two.

The spa jets do give me a nice clean look and good flow. Use a check valve on the spa tubing to prevent water from draining into your sump if the power fails.

Cheers

 

[mille239]

I just set up my CL on a 120. I love it... plenty of flow, no ugly powerheads in the tank!!! I have 1" swivel outputs, so I can direct the flow anywhere needed. I would def. recommend it.

 

[xtrstangx]

Right now on my 40g tank, I don't have one. I kinda hate my tank.. I don't like having 2 huge powerheads in the tank.

My new 120g will have a closed loop. 1 2" intake with 5 1" returns. No OceansMotions yet, but considering that in the future.

Heres a diagram of how it will be setup.

Using a Sequence Dart and plumbing with all Spa-flex.

 

[moumda]

Closed loop with a manifold on top like Calfo recommends works well for me. I just ordered some loc-line to further be able to adjust flows in side the tank. Am currently using an oceans motions 4-way and it's a great product.

I like it better than power heads because of the ability to direct flow where you need it, not having a bunch of power cords all over (enough of them now), and no heat added to water with external pump. The best way to go for total circulation IMO.

 

[MiddletonMark]

Depends on what you can live with in the tank, which will suit your needs best.

I lean the opposite way as many here.

I found a pleasant decrease in the heat in-tank and the power bill when switching from a closed loop to stream-style powerheads. I find [on my tank] that I can visually hide all but one powerhead [and cords] ... but I prefer that method of the two.

As it's on 24/7, that pump sucks a lot of juice IMO.
And for me, ran me close to requiring a chiller.

Do you like to see PVC or cords?
IMO, that's the choice. Now, with everything drilled etc [factor that into the cost, though ... drilling + bulkheads + piping] there's a fair bit of `invisible' cost to the closed loop - or you'll be seeing PVC. When comparing the two, I guess I realized that a cord was about as unnatural to me as short lengths of PVC.

A fair bit depends on aquascape/etc. I didn't regret my closed loop - but one less pump is less power used, less heat added to tank, less tank-noise ... and when I need to re-arrange - it's a few minutes and it's set.

Both seem to have good points and issues IMO - figure which are most important to you, what you can live with looking at.

 

[kevin gu3]

I personally have powerheads. Each approach has pros and cons. If I were to set up a new tank I'd go with Tunze, though.

Compare Tunze stream vs external pump:

Powerhead pros:
* Easy to set up
* Easy to change where they are located after initial setup
* Lots of flow
Powerhead cons:
* Expensive to control - controlled ones are 3X the price.
* Cannot upgrade to controlled output without buying new pumps

Closed loop pros:
* Easy to hide - pipes from bottom or back of tank
* No excess heat
* Cheaper to control (with SQWD-type devices)
* Can switch to controlled output without buying new pump
Closed loop cons:
* Higher electric bill
* Hard match the flow rate that you get from Tunze streams.

 

[MiddletonMark]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6959586#post6959586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin gu3
Closed loop pros:
* No excess heat

I would argue against this one. IME, my LG external CL pumps added a degree or two to the tank vs. Tunze/Seios.

 

[ruppel]

Thanks everyone. Very helpful insights.

Moumda: can you provide me a reference or link to the manifold that Calfo recommends?

Has anyone had trouble with clogged closed-loop piping that requires dramatic efforts to unclog? Or is there a foolproof way to avoid that?

 

[moumda]

wetwebmedia.com and search for an article called "Goodbye powerheads".