Clown bullying other clown over carpet anemone

[killakam]

So I got this purple carpet anemone few days ago. I already have a pair of false percs which never had any problems, they slept by each other before and never fought. Yesterday, the bigger clown hosted the anemone and the little one followed but the bigger one doesnt let it stay there, it nips at it until it leaves. Now the smaller one just sticks to the little spot behind the anemone all day, should I do anything about this or let is stay like this and hope that they will resolve?
Here are some pics

 

[killakam]

The third pic in which they both are inside is when they first hosted, the little dude never had the courage or opportunity to make it back in.
Also one more question, can someone help me ID the exact anemone name? I have been told its a purple s.haddoni but Im a little doubtful

 

[stevetcg]

normal for the clowns. they will work it out eventually. looks like a s. gigantea to me.

 

[Cliff519]

That looks like a gigantea to me as well

I also think that is normal for your clowns as well. I had a younger pair of clowns that had acted like that for a while just after adding a haddoni to my tank. It lasted for a few weeks before then it passed

Nice looking anemone

 

[killakam]

Thanks for the prompt reply guys!
One less thing to worry about.
I thought it was a haddoni because the tentacles weren't that long compared to the giganteas I have seen on web. Here are some more pics from the seller who I bought it from, I dont have any good pics of it besides the ones posted. These are under leds:

 

[killakam]

There is a slight color difference in both of his pictures, might be cause of flash or they were taken under all blue/white led's.

 

[BonsaiNut]

That's a S. gigantea - 100% certain.

If the larger clown is not killing the smaller clown, it's all good. Eventually they will work it out. Just keep an eye on them - if the smaller clown starts showing signs of physical abuse (torn fins, bite marks on body, etc) you may need to separate them.

 

[killakam]

Ahhh, interesting, how rare are these? and what should I do to keep it alive? I am feeding it silversides and it is under low/medium flow, it has its dedicated corner with no coral nearby.
I will keep a look out for that in the clowns, hopefully they will work it out.

 

[emdr888]

Beautiful nem

 

[BonsaiNut]

Ahhh, interesting, how rare are these? and what should I do to keep it alive? I am feeding it silversides and it is under low/medium flow, it has its dedicated corner with no coral nearby.
I will keep a look out for that in the clowns, hopefully they will work it out.

You can read more info in the Anemone FAQ. They are not rare/uncommon, but they are probably the most difficult of the clown anemones to keep alive. Once established, they can be very hardy and as long as you can maintain a stable tank environment they can be relatively care-free.

Yours looks VERY healthy and happy It is a rock anemone that likes strong lighting and strong water motion across the top of its oral disk (i.e. not blowing directly INTO the anemone. They are found in very shallow water in the wild - 2m or less - and may be completely exposed at low tide.

Once established they don't move (often). Because they like strong light, they will often move up your rock pile until they are on top, but if you have strong light and good flow they may stay down somewhere in the middle.

They will get moderately large (for an anemone) but they seem to top out at about 12" to 18" diameter, so they are smaller than the biggest S. haddoni and (much smaller than) S. mertensii.

 

[killakam]

Thanks for the info bonsai. I read the FAQ and seems like they need high light and flow, I have a red sea max so the flow might be a problem, I might have to put mp10s or something similar to address that. Regarding the lighting, red sea max has Six 39w T5 linear; 10,000k 117w; actinic 117w, I hope that will be enough or else I will have to upgrade to LEDs soon

 

[D-Nak]

You can read more info in the Anemone FAQ. They are not rare/uncommon, but they are probably the most difficult of the clown anemones to keep alive. Once established, they can be very hardy and as long as you can maintain a stable tank environment they can be relatively care-free.

Yours looks VERY healthy and happy It is a rock anemone that likes strong lighting and strong water motion across the top of its oral disk (i.e. not blowing directly INTO the anemone. They are found in very shallow water in the wild - 2m or less - and may be completely exposed at low tide.

Once established they don't move (often). Because they like strong light, they will often move up your rock pile until they are on top, but if you have strong light and good flow they may stay down somewhere in the middle.

They will get moderately large (for an anemone) but they seem to top out at about 12" to 18" diameter, so they are smaller than the biggest S. haddoni and (much smaller than) S. mertensii.

+1. Definitely a gigantea. A few things to add.

The tentacle length seems about right for an acclimating gigantea. Many of them come into the LFS looking like haddoni -- really short knobby tentacles which is a sign that it's not happy. Yours are a bit longer than that so it appears to be acclimating well. It's got good color too, no signs of bleaching.

If you find that the clowns are being rough on the anemone (such as trying to torpedo into the nem's mouth) you may want to consider separating the clowns from the anemone until it's fully acclimated (like a month or so). It's my opinions that clowns to more to stress than the anemone than to help it acclimate. Mine used to rip food away from the nem.

Another suggestion it to not feed it silversides, at least for now. Maybe try small pieces of shrimp (maybe the size of a pensil eraser or smaller) since its supposed to be easier for the nem to digest --if you have Selcon, soak it in that for an extra vitamin boost. I've heard horror stories of silversides killing anemones, but of course, this is based on anecdotal evidence.

Best of luck!

 

[killakam]

+1. Definitely a gigantea. A few things to add.

The tentacle length seems about right for an acclimating gigantea. Many of them come into the LFS looking like haddoni -- really short knobby tentacles which is a sign that it's not happy. Yours are a bit longer than that so it appears to be acclimating well. It's got good color too, no signs of bleaching.

If you find that the clowns are being rough on the anemone (such as trying to torpedo into the nem's mouth) you may want to consider separating the clowns from the anemone until it's fully acclimated (like a month or so). It's my opinions that clowns to more to stress than the anemone than to help it acclimate. Mine used to rip food away from the nem.

Another suggestion it to not feed it silversides, at least for now. Maybe try small pieces of shrimp (maybe the size of a pensil eraser or smaller) since its supposed to be easier for the nem to digest --if you have Selcon, soak it in that for an extra vitamin boost. I've heard horror stories of silversides killing anemones, but of course, this is based on anecdotal evidence.

Best of luck!

Thanks for taking the time to provide this valuable information.

The female does torpedo the mouth once in a while when it is a little open, I was considering taking the big one out so she doesnt bully the little one. It never leaved the anemone even when I feed so that might be hard to do.
The anemone has moved from the original corner spot and is moving up, I was testing with the flow today(increasing it or pointing it in a way that the anemone gets a little better flow) and that might have caused that to happen. Any advice on flow and how much flow is required? I have seen videos on youtube like the one below but that seems to much.

What if I cut the silverside into three even portions and feed it like that? maybe get krills cause they looked smaller. I have fed it twice with full silversides and it took them in fully within 30 minutes or so(aprox)

Here is a picture of its mouth at night time, it was open a little more but when I turned the lights on it closed. Some white small tooth look a like subjects could be seen inside the mouth, is that something to worry about?
I can take better pictures when I see that situation again.

Thanks again guys!

taken by iphone 4s

videos of flow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd9cpadOaA4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV8FXAeb0NA

 

[D-Nak]

The mouth looks good. Tentacle length appears to be getting longer. All good signs. Sounds like it's also showing a good feeding response. This all leads me to believe you have a healthy gig that's acclimating nicely. Congrats!

If it begins to inflate/deflate on a regular basis then you may be in trouble. Otherwise, looking' good.

 

[killakam]

Thanks for the prompt reply D-Nak! Regarding the flow, should it really be high like in those videos or somewhere along gentle back and forth sway.
Also, just wanted to know how deflation would look in a carpet anemone, would it totally go inside or just shrink in size or literally just deflate? Mine shrinks a little at night but fully expands in light.

 

[BonsaiNut]

The "small tooth-like" appendages just inside the mouth represent the ends of the "siphonoglyphs". In clown anemones, there are most often two siphonogyphs - one on each side of the mouth. They are longitudinal grooves that extend down into the actinopharynx (the "throat") of the anemone, and their surface is covered with ciliates whose movement provides water flow into the interior of the anemone. The siphonoglyphs are how an anemone maintains its internal water pressure, and they are one method by which an anemone "breathes". All anemones are bilaterally symmetrical - in that one side is exactly the same as the other - and the siphonoglyphs define the axis of symmetry.

Probably too much information, but I thought you might be interested

 

[killakam]

That is pretty interesting, why are they out only once in a while?
I was also wondering if there are any diagrams of the anatomy of anemones or something; a dissection type.

Here is a recent pic, the tentacles are getting longer, I hope its a good sign

 

[BonsaiNut]

That is pretty interesting, why are they out only once in a while?
I was also wondering if there are any diagrams of the anatomy of anemones or something; a dissection type.

You can find them in several of the clown/anemone books out there. I know Fautin/Allen's book has a simple one. Here is an online copy of Fautin/Allen's book - without the fancy color photos and diagrams. It includes most of the text, and is a nice (albeit simplified) online reference for clowns and anemones. If you want detailed anatomy, there are a lot of scientific papers available online that have much more detailed cross sections, etc.

The ends of the siphonglyphs will typically only be visible when the anemone is partially deflated. When the anemone is puffed up, the mouth should be tightly closed and the siphonglyphs won't be visible. Anemones inflate and deflate for lots of reasons - when they are releasing waste, balancing water chemistry, spawning, stressed - etc. Typically when the anemone is "happy" you won't see them, but seeing them is not (in and of itself) a bad sign as long as the mouth doesn't remain gaping for a long time.

 

[killakam]

That is a really useful simplified encyclopedia for anemones and clownfish. I was a pre-med student for a while so I do find this kinda interesting. How long is a long time for the mouth to remain gaping?
I found this in other thread:

How long is a long time for the mouth to remain gaping?