Clown Seeking Host Behavior??? Have you Seen This?

[Vitaly]

I posted a thread earlier about my ocellaris clown that has stopped eating in the past 3 days and has become very inactive; confining himself to one end of the tank.

I took a video of him to my LFS and spoke to a very knowledgeable and trustworthy guy at the store. He feels that the clownfish is looking for a host. As a consequence he is a little stressed and that is why he is not eating and has become less active.

Have any of you observed this...or had anemonefish do this?

Thanks for you feedback...


Original Thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=950261

 

[MarinaP]

Re: Clown Seeking Host Behavior??? Have you Seen This?

Healthy clowns do great without a host. In fact, most pairs breed without a host, using a flower pot/PVC piece/tile to lay eggs.

Have you noticed stringy white feces from your clown?

 

[Vitaly]

Marina,

I agree about not needing a host to survive in captivity. This is why I was somewhat suspicious of this reasoning. But I was not sure if it was possible to such an instinct to suddenly become active and lead the animal to feel stressed without a host.

I have occasionally seen him defecate, and during those times it appeared to be more of a loose cloud of feces released as a puff/burst. In contrast to the Coral Beauty Angel who normally seems to have a long, stringy feces.

I will watch to see if I can catch him defecate. Is there are reason that you ask about this...is it symptomatic of something specific?

However, considering that I have not seen him eat in 3 days I am not sure how much he will defecate. I do seem him take occasion large "gulps" which I have read are performed when the fish are taking drinks of water.

As an aside, are you (or it your name) Russian?

Thanks again...

 

[MarinaP]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8340737#post8340737 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Vitaly
Is there are reason that you ask about this...is it symptomatic of something specific?

Internal parasites (original cause) could lead to starvation and subsequent shedding of intestinal wall. Post a pic of him, if you can.

Privet

 

[bencozzy]

just give that clown a clay pot or a pvc elbow.

mine host two clay pots and is super happy it thinks the pot has tentacles. funny to watch it rub the pot.

 

[Vitaly]

<B>Bencozzy</B> thanks for the feedback, however, I am inclined to agree with <B>MarinaP</B> in that there may be some sort of infection/parasite.

He actually ate some pellet food this evening. <B>I did notice that he seems to be breathing more rapidly than before...this is sort of visible in the video.</B>I am actually planning to move him to a hyposalinic quarantine tank. Hopefully this will give him a better chance of accessing food. Normally he darts to the surface to eat. But since he is so lethargic now...the other fish get it first. Additionally, I am thinking that the where I will keep him in hyposalinic water will kill off any parasites the he may be harbouring.

<B>Marina</B>I have pics and movies posted at.

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/stepensk/shared

The movies I took this morning and show the lethargy and how he stays in place near a piece of live rock that is in his territory.

P.S. <B>Marina</B>..."Pree-Vet." I was born in Kiev...but my family immigrated in 1980, when I was about 2 years old.

Thanks again for the suggestions...

 

[Vitaly]

Bacterial or Parasitic Infection!!!

Bacterial or Parasitic Infection!!!

<B>MarinaP</B> you are <U>AWESOME</U>!!!

Saw some stringy, white feces being excreted this evening (he did eat some pellet food). Additionally, I noticed that his breathing is very rapid. Those two observations in combination with the lethargy...I am definetly thinking this is an infection of some sort. <B>MarinaP</B>...thanks again for the lead.

I am going to wait for him to go "to sleep" and transfer to a hyposalinic quarantine tank.

<LI>Are there any medicacations (copper) that are recommended for use in this situation...or should I just wait to see if hyposalinity clears things up first?

<LI>Should I worry about them...how likely is a pathogen, either parasitic or bacterial, to spread to the other fish?

<LI>Is there anything that I can do prophylicatically to reduce the likelyhood of the other fish getting infected?

Thanks again for comments...

 

[MarinaP]

Glad I could help.

I am not sure I would move him to hypo.

PraziPro (www.uskoi.com/prazipro.htm) should help with internal parasites.

 

[Vitaly]

Really...I thought that the hyposalinity would help to clear the pathogen? From some of the literature that I have seen, it suggests that at an SG of 1.016-18 most of the aquatic parasites do not survive, whereas the fish do okay.

Other than medicating the tank...are there any other steps that I can take.

Thanks again Marina.

 

[vaporize]

what if the clown is no longer eating, how to deal with it?

 

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8342557#post8342557 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Vitaly
Really...I thought that the hyposalinity would help to clear the pathogen? From some of the literature that I have seen, it suggests that at an SG of 1.016-18 most of the aquatic parasites do not survive, whereas the fish do okay.

Other than medicating the tank...are there any other steps that I can take.

While I am not Marina, internal parasites are not impacted by a drop in salinity. The internal levels of the marine fish remain constant until a SG lower then 1.009 is reached.

Internal parasites must be medicated, Marina suggested one of the better we have available at the moment.

fwiw: even external parasites, i.e., crypto, amyloo, and brook are very tolerant of lower salinity until 1.009-1.011 is reached. Some parasites will just remain as cysts until a proper SG is again reached. The marine fish will be fine at 1.009 as a long as the pH remains buffered properly and a bit of time is taken while lowering the SG. Bringing the SG back up needs to be done more gradually.

Cheers and good luck.

 

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8342866#post8342866 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vaporize
what if the clown is no longer eating, how to deal with it?

If the hospital tank is treated with a proper dewormer, the infestation can still be treated. After the fish are eating again, the food can be treated as well.

Unfortunately, some of the better medicines are no longer available to us

 

[vaporize]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8342941#post8342941 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by traveller7
If the hospital tank is treated with a proper dewormer, the infestation can still be treated. After the fish are eating again, the food can be treated as well.

Unfortunately, some of the better medicines are no longer available to us

Scott, what would we use as a 'proper dewormer'?

I am only aware of using metro or parazintel (sp) with food intake. I have a similiar situation that the fish basically stopped eating and lying on its bottom and grasping, cant' get it to eat.

Thanks

 

[traveller7]

The ones you have named are likely the better options we have today, although metrodiaz is not packaged in as great a variety these days.

A few of us have had the best luck with piperazine citrate as packaged by Aquatronics. Aquatronics is out of business.

Piperazine citrate is still readily available at your local pet shop, but in liquid form, and it includes a chocolatey flavor: the medication is the main ingredient in Erliworm dog dewormer Yes I have used this in a pinch, but only on fresh water specimens to date.

Quite a few cat wormers are based on piperazine, but the price is astromical.

In my experience, piperazine citrate worked with marine fish whether they were eating to not. It was not as effected on fresh water fish that were not eating. Such seems to mirror comments in the FW Discus community.

If you have prazi, I would certainly try it.

fwiw: Laying on its side and gasping, would not make me think of internal parasites as the primary diagnosis unless the fish was severely emaciated.

Possibly start a new thread with the symptoms, time frames involved, possibly a picture, etc.

Best of luck.