clown trigger?
- Thread starter dmopar74
- Start date
clowntriggerfis
New member
Beautiful and agressive definitly but I think the tank will be a little small for a adult. A 240 would be a good tank for one if want to keep one long term. They can get almost 2ft but usualy are a little smaller in captivity.
humaguy
Premium Member
I would get one as small as possible...around 1 to 1.5 inches, they can be tough to keep alive and need to be fed every few hours to keep up with their high metabolism but ime they seem to be less aggressive when they do get large...great fish, wonderful personalities, very beautiful, just can be very, very aggressive...
I'd get a bigger one, more like 2.5-3 inches. As you mentioned, the tiny ones tend to be more delicate and more likely to die. I think losses tend to be pretty high with the really tiny ones. One that size could be grown up in a 55 for a while before it had to go to a bigger tank.
mattsilvester
Team RC
I really believe there is merit to keeping a fish like a clown trigger, in his own dedicated tank; and when doing so that the fish can be kept in a smaller than typical tank.
Wet Web Media cites them at 19" max wild size.
My own experience with fish in general, and the countless 1st hand stories I've heard from hobbiests that have been in the game for decades, have led me to the conclusion that typically one can expect a heom grown fish to attain about 2/3 of its adult size, given reasonable and consistent water quality, diet, and space. So let's say that you could expect 12-14" after quite a long period of time. *disclaimer. I know that there are species that do reach their full potential in the home aquarium, but the majority do not and we don't need to look to examples of big triggers or angels etc. to see this - take teh humble yellow tang for example; how often have you seen an 8" captive grown specimens; 5-6" would be a very good size!!!
If we accept that the fish will top out at around 12-14", and that it will take at least years to do so from a starting size of 3-4" (thats average 2" per year..... more initially, less towards the end), then we can base our proposed home for the creature based on this size rather than the unrealistic 19".
My personal rule of thumb has always been that a tank should be 6-8 times the length of the expected full size of the fish. 6x times being for typical fish, 8xtimes being for cruisers and palagic type fish such as naso tangs. I would further qualify that the tank footprint should be in the ratio of 1:3 or less i.e. 72" x 24", 96" x 30", etc..... there is little point give a fish more length to swim and nowhere to turn. More recently, I have happened upon another theory, a little more scientific, for establishing tank sizes. Details can be found here: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3048
Essentially, what this says in that both tank length and width should be considered, as well as the type of fish:
- add length + width (72" + 24" = 96").
- divide this figure by a factor for sedentary(3.5 - 5), maneuverable (5-7), or cruiser (6-8).
- The resulting figure is the max. length of fish the tank can house.
Sedentary = (say) lionfish
Maneuvrable = (say) angels
Cruiser = (say) sharks or fast paced tangs
On this basis, and on the most stringent factor of 7, a 180 could support a 14" fish (13.7"). Consider that "7" is the midband of the "cruiser" category, and consdier also that with a single fish in the tank that decor needs to be minimum and territorial disputes (and stress asscoaited with same) are non existent.
With respect to all of our experience and opinion, most of us base our opinion on gut feeling or have picked it up from someone we respect such as Bob FEnner - but we have no rationale or basis for our opinion, and have little or no basis in science or experimental evidence. The article I reference above is by no means comprehensive, and it is based on freshwater and marine fish, which are of course different. But it is a correcting influence in a hobby where it seems every few years the bar is raised for what is acceptable.
In conclusion, in my opinion a 180 gal tank with a sole inhabitant clown trigger is going to be fine for the fish for quite some time, perhaps indefinitely. The major words of caution I would put forward would be that:
(1) This fish will live for a long time, and will give you very little flexiblity for change. If you're going to get bored of him after a few years, think where will he go? Personally, I would get bored.
(2) If you keep him for 5yrs plus, and against the odds he reaches 12-14" and keeps on growing with no end in sight, then you will need to consider a bigger tank - probably 96" x 30" x 30". Do you have a spot and a budget for a tank that big, or do you envisage having it? You will be very attached to the animal by then, I am sure you will do everything in your power.
Wet Web Media cites them at 19" max wild size.
My own experience with fish in general, and the countless 1st hand stories I've heard from hobbiests that have been in the game for decades, have led me to the conclusion that typically one can expect a heom grown fish to attain about 2/3 of its adult size, given reasonable and consistent water quality, diet, and space. So let's say that you could expect 12-14" after quite a long period of time. *disclaimer. I know that there are species that do reach their full potential in the home aquarium, but the majority do not and we don't need to look to examples of big triggers or angels etc. to see this - take teh humble yellow tang for example; how often have you seen an 8" captive grown specimens; 5-6" would be a very good size!!!
If we accept that the fish will top out at around 12-14", and that it will take at least years to do so from a starting size of 3-4" (thats average 2" per year..... more initially, less towards the end), then we can base our proposed home for the creature based on this size rather than the unrealistic 19".
My personal rule of thumb has always been that a tank should be 6-8 times the length of the expected full size of the fish. 6x times being for typical fish, 8xtimes being for cruisers and palagic type fish such as naso tangs. I would further qualify that the tank footprint should be in the ratio of 1:3 or less i.e. 72" x 24", 96" x 30", etc..... there is little point give a fish more length to swim and nowhere to turn. More recently, I have happened upon another theory, a little more scientific, for establishing tank sizes. Details can be found here: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3048
Essentially, what this says in that both tank length and width should be considered, as well as the type of fish:
- add length + width (72" + 24" = 96").
- divide this figure by a factor for sedentary(3.5 - 5), maneuverable (5-7), or cruiser (6-8).
- The resulting figure is the max. length of fish the tank can house.
Sedentary = (say) lionfish
Maneuvrable = (say) angels
Cruiser = (say) sharks or fast paced tangs
On this basis, and on the most stringent factor of 7, a 180 could support a 14" fish (13.7"). Consider that "7" is the midband of the "cruiser" category, and consdier also that with a single fish in the tank that decor needs to be minimum and territorial disputes (and stress asscoaited with same) are non existent.
With respect to all of our experience and opinion, most of us base our opinion on gut feeling or have picked it up from someone we respect such as Bob FEnner - but we have no rationale or basis for our opinion, and have little or no basis in science or experimental evidence. The article I reference above is by no means comprehensive, and it is based on freshwater and marine fish, which are of course different. But it is a correcting influence in a hobby where it seems every few years the bar is raised for what is acceptable.
In conclusion, in my opinion a 180 gal tank with a sole inhabitant clown trigger is going to be fine for the fish for quite some time, perhaps indefinitely. The major words of caution I would put forward would be that:
(1) This fish will live for a long time, and will give you very little flexiblity for change. If you're going to get bored of him after a few years, think where will he go? Personally, I would get bored.
(2) If you keep him for 5yrs plus, and against the odds he reaches 12-14" and keeps on growing with no end in sight, then you will need to consider a bigger tank - probably 96" x 30" x 30". Do you have a spot and a budget for a tank that big, or do you envisage having it? You will be very attached to the animal by then, I am sure you will do everything in your power.
Woodchuck12
New member
Mattsilvester, I think that there would be some exceptions to this rule. By this logic an achilles tang would fit into a 90 gallon aquarium but the minimum tank size I have heard is 180 gallons. Otherwise this is an extremely informative post so thanks for the writeup.
humaguy
Premium Member
awesome advice as always...you do know your stuff...however, I would not recommend a clown trigger in a 180, even alone, permanently...they get too big, and I agree mostly with the 2/3rds adult size estimate, but they just need too much swimming room as they are very active...
I would also reiterate getting a very small specimen, providing your tank is very healthy and you are committed to feeding it almost every 3 hours, just about 24 hours a day, for the first 2 to possibly 4 weeks...but, imo based on ime, they are far more docile than a larger-sized one...a 2-3 incher is fine too though it may shows more signs of aggression...they can already be scrappy at that size, testing themselves and their tankmates...but, a 1 incher is so happy to be alive it seems and is so curious about everything around it - a simple air bubble is fascinating to them-that aggression seems to be greatly reduced, especially as they grow...also keep in mind, that these trigs are also very fast growing...my current clown is about 6 inches and he was a tiny 1 incher about 5.5 months ago...because they are so fast growing, it is not really the type of fish that should be purchased for a small tank with the thought that "I will upgrade in a year or so" it could be 8 inches by then...
I would also reiterate getting a very small specimen, providing your tank is very healthy and you are committed to feeding it almost every 3 hours, just about 24 hours a day, for the first 2 to possibly 4 weeks...but, imo based on ime, they are far more docile than a larger-sized one...a 2-3 incher is fine too though it may shows more signs of aggression...they can already be scrappy at that size, testing themselves and their tankmates...but, a 1 incher is so happy to be alive it seems and is so curious about everything around it - a simple air bubble is fascinating to them-that aggression seems to be greatly reduced, especially as they grow...also keep in mind, that these trigs are also very fast growing...my current clown is about 6 inches and he was a tiny 1 incher about 5.5 months ago...because they are so fast growing, it is not really the type of fish that should be purchased for a small tank with the thought that "I will upgrade in a year or so" it could be 8 inches by then...
Triton_Z
Member
Matt,
Thanks for the informative post. I had read Jay Hemdal's article awhile back and I found the article insightful and less vague (in support) than some of the other information in the trade. I think Jay used to participate here, but don't believe that is the case any longer.
Humaguy, I wonder whether raising a sub-juvenile trigger like a B. conspicillum has any long term effects of aggression and innate behavior. I have never owned one, but appears the stories of my clown trigger just snapped and murdered its long established tankmates are common place.
I've talked about my P. Fuscus being docile and an excellent community fish when it was small (3-4") and then growing more and more belligerent over time as it grew past 6".
Thanks for the informative post. I had read Jay Hemdal's article awhile back and I found the article insightful and less vague (in support) than some of the other information in the trade. I think Jay used to participate here, but don't believe that is the case any longer.
Humaguy, I wonder whether raising a sub-juvenile trigger like a B. conspicillum has any long term effects of aggression and innate behavior. I have never owned one, but appears the stories of my clown trigger just snapped and murdered its long established tankmates are common place.
I've talked about my P. Fuscus being docile and an excellent community fish when it was small (3-4") and then growing more and more belligerent over time as it grew past 6".
I saw this specimen a few weeks ago at a wholesaler in LA, just around the corner from LAX. Take a look at the copper band butterfly fish for a size comparison. They were about 4-5" long if I recall correctly.
I can't add anything to the advice stated about tank size, but they are a beautiful fish.
I can't add anything to the advice stated about tank size, but they are a beautiful fish.
humaguy
Premium Member
I love the pink on the fins...only real large specimens develop them...
triton, agree, fuscus can be very aggressive too... my current, is around 3 inches and is fairly mellow...also raised him from a tiny 1 inch...but, I do worry about him becoming aggressive with size...
triton, agree, fuscus can be very aggressive too... my current, is around 3 inches and is fairly mellow...also raised him from a tiny 1 inch...but, I do worry about him becoming aggressive with size...
Here is a video just click the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KAjCdT_EXw
When I was young, we had a saltwater fish store in NJ that had a large, wall-built display tank to house an adult, single clown trigger. The tank was big (like a smaller public aquarium display) and the trigger was large, but probably more like 14-15" rather than 19". It was their logo too, and they had it for years. This was in the late 1970s. That tank was at least 6 feet high over 10 feet long. I don't recall the depth, but it had to be at least 3 feet. The trigger looked very happy in this tank, and used every bit of it. After seeing that, it's hard to imagine one happy in a 180. That may be true of a lot of other fish too, but I'll never forget how joyously that trigger swam in its big tank.
