Clownfish Crossbreeds?

[chrisstie]

I am trying to figure out how you can tell which clown species are capable of viable cross breeding. I know Occelaris and Percula can, but what limiting factors allow that? It doesn't seem logical that they could cross with say, a saddleback but could they?

In dogs I think size is a limiting factor.. a great dane and a chihuahua would have mutant babies that probably wouldn't be vaiable, but I was wondering how you tell in the fish world.

I've come up with very little on google search but the types of words im using also pull up many other meanings and lots of hobby stuff on how to breed clownfish.

does anyone know about this or could point me toward some resources?

I'm not looking to breed clowns or crossbreed them, but am using this information as more of a baseline of what clowns you could pair with other species to have a diverse pair .. I've kept matching pairs but am thinking on a pair that would be a little more dramatic but want to try this out on pen and paper first before trying to physically stress out fish trying to pair them

 

[phender]

That' an easy one.
All clowns can interbreed with all other clowns and produce viable offspring. That goes for Maroons as well, who technically aren't in the same genus as other clowns.

I captivity: (just the ones I know for a fact)
Maroons x ocellaris
Tomato x ocellaris
ocellaris x percula
sebae x polymnus
ephippium x frenatus

In the wild: theorized but in most cases not proven)
blue stripe (chrysoterous) x orange skunk (sandaracinos) = leucokranos (white caps)
ocellaris x pink or orange skunk (probably orange) = thiellei
bicinctus x nigripes = chagos

FWIW: with the exception of thiellei and sometimes white caps, IMO hybrids are usually not as appealing as the original parents.

 

[chrisstie]

Is this because they fall under ampiphiron? And the maroons with such similar biology?

Sebae and Polymnus seem close, but it seems more radical doing say allardi x percula. I wonder if introduced properly as juvenile and all if it will really work out in captivity. Hmm.

I appreciate your response but I guess I'm also looking for the how all this works out - they all must be genetally really similar to each other with very very similar mating patterns (which to my knowledge the mating patterns are similar)

 

[phender]

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but I'll give it a shot. All clowns belong to the genus Amphiprion except Maroons, but their is current debate based on DNA, that Maroons should be in Amphiprion as well.

Many clown biologists believe that clowns originated near the island of New Guinea since that area has the most different species of clowns. There are 6 main clown complexes: ocellaris, tomato, clarki, skunk, polymnus and maroon. As these clowns dispersed they became isolated and some became new species. As time has gone on some of the ranges of these species have begun to overlap again. In the wild clowns tend to occupy different niches (lagoon, open flats, reef face, reef slope) and/or different species of anemones and in some cases have different submission behaviors. This tends to keep them from interbreeding in the wild. In the case of chysopterus and orange skunks, they both like the same anemones and the niche, but sometimes behavioral differences aren't enough to keep them apart. (for at least one couple anyway).

What it come down to is that clowns are all genetically very similar. It is their behaviors that, for the most part, keep them from interbreeding in the wild. When we force them to share the same tank and anemones, all bets are off. In some cases, different mating rituals still get in the way. For example, two young clowns of different species will live together for several years until one become a female and wants to mate. Her partner responds with the wrong response to her aggression(clicking instead of head shaking or something) and she drives him off or kills him. Or maybe the bar is closing and she doesn't care what his response is and goes home with him anyway.

 

[chrisstie]

Thank you this is pretty much the start of what I was looking for. It feels good to have confirmed that they are genetically really similar.

What I'm doing is entertaining the theory of finding a different mate for my Latz clown than another latz. They are costly, relatively rare, and I'm unsure that my 55g would be enough territory for a mated pair as well as my other fish.

So I'm doing this on pen and paper first to see what would be possible. If I'm going to pair them, why not make sure its a type of clown that could possibly mate, instead of having habits too different that it could be rejected- kind of like what you were saying above. However, I wonder just how far this envelope could be pushed.

It would be a hoot, so to speak, to see her say, with a perc. BIG dark clown with a little orange one? crazy. More likely a polymnus type would go better with her and be more compatible but in theory, i'd like to know what my most viable options would be. My tank has unique things, or at least fish with looks/behaviors I consider different than your typical stroll through the LFS.

If I were to pair my latz, I'm thinking an eccentric but compatible couple would be very interesting. However I'm still unsettled on how I feel about actually doing this. There are some who probably think crossing species isn't ethical, and some who are for it, much like how we've done with dogs. I would want to put the health of my fish as the utmost priority so doing a lot of research (very hard to find on this subject on my searches so far) first hand and weighing my options are things I want to do before even possibly considering going ahead.

 

[Arati]

Although I dont have experiance with Latz, the idea of a Cross introduction of adult clownfish is highly suspect.

I have heard of people piaring Latz with Black saddles A.Polymnus but I dont see how that would solve your space problem.

Last thing is that you risk the Latz if the intro goes badly.

That would be my fear. I piared a Occ with a Maroon , both were Juvys and they got along verry well. One day I noticed they had been fighting. Knowing that maroon clownfish can be verry agro I decided to pull them apart that weekend. Sadly the maroon killed the Occ. before I got home the next day. I nearly lost them both because the negative effects of the whole situation caused her to stress out stop eating ect ect..
point is not all the damage is visable through the glass.