Cold/Temperate Water Reef
- Thread starter reefnewbie54321
- Start date
Argon should be available through a local welding shop... the gas would cheap if you have your own tank.... might look around for a welder that uses it for a shield gas (think aluminum TIG welding calls for it not 100% sure) but that could be a cheap source to *borrow* some gas from and then refill his tank later.
Thanks for the tip, so they use large amounts of argon for welding. That should make it cheaper. Though I belive air would do the trick if I could get it dry enough. Desiccant is easy to get and if it takes out all the moisture then that could work.
It is tempting to do an experiment with 2 small pieces of 4mm glass that are spaced apart and the void completely sealed with epoxy. But I won't give it high priority because I have decided to go with single glass this time because of the photo issues.
Finally the article about the tank is done:
http://www.jonolavsakvarium.com/eng_diy/tankbuilding2006/index.html
It is tempting to do an experiment with 2 small pieces of 4mm glass that are spaced apart and the void completely sealed with epoxy. But I won't give it high priority because I have decided to go with single glass this time because of the photo issues.
Finally the article about the tank is done:
http://www.jonolavsakvarium.com/eng_diy/tankbuilding2006/index.html
Great news for all who would like to have double glazing on the tanks! A handyman at another forum explained how professionals do it. It seems like you can easily add double glazing to any glass tank. Short explanation:
1. Order a thin glass pane the size of the front glass, slightly smaller actually.
2. Get some square tube of alu and cut it to a frame fitting along the outer edge of the front glass.
3. Drill small holes in the "inside" of the tube.
4. Fill the tube with silica gel desiccant.
5. Glue it to the front glass with silicone. Epoxy is probably better.
6. Clean glass and glue the thin sheet to the outer edge the frame. The seal must be completely air tight.
This is how all insulation glass is made. Silicone is not used as glue though, because it is not completely moisture proof. But in practice it works ok.
Note no special gas is necessary. That is just for better insulation.
1. Order a thin glass pane the size of the front glass, slightly smaller actually.
2. Get some square tube of alu and cut it to a frame fitting along the outer edge of the front glass.
3. Drill small holes in the "inside" of the tube.
4. Fill the tube with silica gel desiccant.
5. Glue it to the front glass with silicone. Epoxy is probably better.
6. Clean glass and glue the thin sheet to the outer edge the frame. The seal must be completely air tight.
This is how all insulation glass is made. Silicone is not used as glue though, because it is not completely moisture proof. But in practice it works ok.
Note no special gas is necessary. That is just for better insulation.
Lexan's insulative value is probably roughly equivalent to that of acrylic but nowhere near the value (so to speak). 3/4" Lexan (polycarbonate) costs about twice as much as 3/4" acrylic, is not as clear as acrylic, and scratches much easier. Lexan can be used but dollar for dollar, can't beat acrylic, unless of course - you've got a bunch of optical grade Lexan plate around 
HTH,
James
HTH,
James
aquaman590
New member
Collection in SoCal
Collection in SoCal
I'm floored by the beauty and (relative!) simplicity of these systems...
Anyone know what the laws are like when collecting stock down in Southern California (Catalina, Newport, Laguna etc.)? If I started a system like this, it would be neat to have those ubiquitous green nems...
Collection in SoCal
I'm floored by the beauty and (relative!) simplicity of these systems...
Anyone know what the laws are like when collecting stock down in Southern California (Catalina, Newport, Laguna etc.)? If I started a system like this, it would be neat to have those ubiquitous green nems...
steveweast
Active member
I believe that obtaining a California collection permit is difficult. I would check the fish and game website for more info. Those green anemones actually would be a poor choice. They are one of the few anemones that are photosynthetic....which means your having to provide significant light....which usually leads to algae maintenance issues in a cold tank since cold tanks need to run nutrient rich. There are better anemone choices out there that require no lighting. There are some new pics in this thread if interested....
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1152971
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1152971
davidryder
Claris or Elliot?
Any news on the project?
wooden_reefer
New member
Would you think that South California indigenous species are more moderate than cold?
Would most do well in the high 60s F?
I want a comparison of energy costs.
Is it true that moderate zone invertebrates do not need intense light because that do not live with symbiotic algae?
How do you solve the problem of condensate on the front of the glass?
Would most do well in the high 60s F?
I want a comparison of energy costs.
Is it true that moderate zone invertebrates do not need intense light because that do not live with symbiotic algae?
How do you solve the problem of condensate on the front of the glass?
steveweast
Active member
1) I would think that most SoCal critters would prefer 58F -62F.....but, it really depends on what and from where you are collecting. A few things could tolerate higher temps....but....everyone would prefer the lower temp.
2) The vast majority of inverts are non- photosynthetic. Lighting is for the viewer only in these type tanks....in fact...it is best to keep low lighting to limit nuissance algae which will dominate the tank in short order since cold tanks need to run on the nutrient rich side.
3) I have NO condensation even on the hottest of summer days. My tanks and sump are made from 1 inch thick acrylic.
You'd be breaking the law if you did collect anything for your tank in the Monterey Bay, especially a few miles down the road from the MBA. Besides the fact it's the Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary, there's also no hobby collection permit issued in CA state. You can get eduacational permits if you can jump thru the hopes and can prove your a teacher, but you can not take anything under legal limits and only items listed in the CA F&G Reg handbook.
Generally what Gresham said.
I looked up some of these questions in the CA Fish & Game code, and article 14 "tidal invertebrates" sec 8500 states that no mollusks, crustaceans, or other invertebrates may be taken, possessed aboard a boat, or landed for commercial purposes by any person in any tide pool or tidal area...between the high tidemark and 1,000 feet beyond the low tidemark, unless a valid tidal invertebrate permit has been issued to that person...
So, it appears that if you decide to go collecting your own livestock without permits, you probably would be in violation of a state law here in California.
When I lived back east I worked with some folks building a "gulf of Maine" coldwater display. The diversity and colors of coldwater species is, IMHO, just as impressive as the tropical stuff. I would love to build another coldwater tank but the main problem is getting livestock.
I looked up some of these questions in the CA Fish & Game code, and article 14 "tidal invertebrates" sec 8500 states that no mollusks, crustaceans, or other invertebrates may be taken, possessed aboard a boat, or landed for commercial purposes by any person in any tide pool or tidal area...between the high tidemark and 1,000 feet beyond the low tidemark, unless a valid tidal invertebrate permit has been issued to that person...
So, it appears that if you decide to go collecting your own livestock without permits, you probably would be in violation of a state law here in California.
When I lived back east I worked with some folks building a "gulf of Maine" coldwater display. The diversity and colors of coldwater species is, IMHO, just as impressive as the tropical stuff. I would love to build another coldwater tank but the main problem is getting livestock.
Try it and see if "appears" and probaly are the right words 
If seen you can expect a ticket and maybe be brought in to be booked if you have enough stuff. It's absolutly illegal.
I spent years on this issue when I was in wholesale. I've talked to numerous field agents, office bound agents, in person, on the phone and via email. I've talked to them as recently as two months ago.
If seen you can expect a ticket and maybe be brought in to be booked if you have enough stuff. It's absolutly illegal.I spent years on this issue when I was in wholesale. I've talked to numerous field agents, office bound agents, in person, on the phone and via email. I've talked to them as recently as two months ago.
Don't know US law, but just a thought: "Commercial purposes" doesn't that mean that you intend to sell the stuff and make money on it? Here in Norway there is a big difference between commercial purposes and private recreational. If you do commercial stuff you need to have licence from the authorities and permission from land owner if you collect from land. If you collect for private purposes you are free to collect anywhere. So the above mentioned text would not apply to you as a non commercial unit. Same in the US?
Just some more stuff I found, maybe it can help you guys a little:
These guys collect reptiles and amphibians for private use using a freshwater sportsfishing licensce. Maybe they know more about collecting:
http://www.californiaherps.com/info/herpinglaws.html
Saltwater sportsfishing licencse:
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mrd/sportfishing_regs2007.html
At first glance it seems like there are few restrictions on collecting animals and plants. The only restrictions are on tidal animals. But there a a bunch of exceptions. Also, you can cath tidal animals outside the tidal zone and you can collect non tidal animals closer to the shore that the 1000 feet restrictions. I may be waay out here, but don't give up too early. I had long discussions with local aquarists here in my country who though keeping native fish and wildlife was illegal. Even a police officer was among them. In the end I called the "directorate", national government body and had my views confirmed. So we got things cleared up and future aquarists don't have to go through the same ordeal.
These guys collect reptiles and amphibians for private use using a freshwater sportsfishing licensce. Maybe they know more about collecting:
http://www.californiaherps.com/info/herpinglaws.html
Saltwater sportsfishing licencse:
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mrd/sportfishing_regs2007.html
At first glance it seems like there are few restrictions on collecting animals and plants. The only restrictions are on tidal animals. But there a a bunch of exceptions. Also, you can cath tidal animals outside the tidal zone and you can collect non tidal animals closer to the shore that the 1000 feet restrictions. I may be waay out here, but don't give up too early. I had long discussions with local aquarists here in my country who though keeping native fish and wildlife was illegal. Even a police officer was among them. In the end I called the "directorate", national government body and had my views confirmed. So we got things cleared up and future aquarists don't have to go through the same ordeal.
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