Cold/Temperate Water Reef
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Dale Carlisle
New member
Hi guys, sorry for the slow response.
Steve, the substrate is used for sandblasting. Here's a link:20-50 blue diamond abrasive grit
The skimmer works fine, I'll edit in a link to the DIY build (link is at the botom of the post).
The biofilter is one of my favorite new toys as it is sooooo basic.
1. Close the tee valve on the outlet pipe
2. Prime the system
3. Open the tee valve
The siphon effect kicks in and you have a perpetual motion machine. The key is to only sink the intake an inch or two below the surface of the display and to ensure your sump can hold that inch or two of water. As long as your return pump is pumping more than you're siphoning, all will be well. The one problem that can occur is if your return pump stops. Then your biofilter will continue siphoning the display till it breaks siphon (in my case 10-15G.'s). All I need now is 3 more G.'s of bioballs.
Dales DIY 5G. skimmer
Dales DIY 5G. biofilter
Steve, the substrate is used for sandblasting. Here's a link:20-50 blue diamond abrasive grit
The skimmer works fine, I'll edit in a link to the DIY build (link is at the botom of the post).
The biofilter is one of my favorite new toys as it is sooooo basic.
1. Close the tee valve on the outlet pipe
2. Prime the system
3. Open the tee valve
The siphon effect kicks in and you have a perpetual motion machine. The key is to only sink the intake an inch or two below the surface of the display and to ensure your sump can hold that inch or two of water. As long as your return pump is pumping more than you're siphoning, all will be well. The one problem that can occur is if your return pump stops. Then your biofilter will continue siphoning the display till it breaks siphon (in my case 10-15G.'s). All I need now is 3 more G.'s of bioballs.
Dales DIY 5G. skimmer
Dales DIY 5G. biofilter
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invincible569
New member
Dale, I like your approach, but I dont see how you can keep these corals without a chiller. Maybe I missed something you said.
Dale Carlisle
New member
I only said I was going to try 
I don't have a problem running a chiller, I just want to see if I can maintain my tank without one first. I want to do this for two reasons:
a.) The cost. This 135G. is just a precursor to a much bigger system in the future. I am concerned with the capital outlay for a chiller suitable for a 1000 - 2000G. tank and more importantly, the ongoing operational cost.
b.) Condensation issues. If I can run a tank at my ambient garage temps I can avoid most of the condensation issues Steve has eluded to.
It is also important to remember that this will be a temperate or tidal zone tank and not a true coldwater tank. I will be stocking with flora and fauna found in tidal pools/flats and mud bays where the temps vary depending on tidal and weather conditions.
I'm finding it all quite interesting as it is all one big learning curve!
I don't have a problem running a chiller, I just want to see if I can maintain my tank without one first. I want to do this for two reasons:
a.) The cost. This 135G. is just a precursor to a much bigger system in the future. I am concerned with the capital outlay for a chiller suitable for a 1000 - 2000G. tank and more importantly, the ongoing operational cost.
b.) Condensation issues. If I can run a tank at my ambient garage temps I can avoid most of the condensation issues Steve has eluded to.
It is also important to remember that this will be a temperate or tidal zone tank and not a true coldwater tank. I will be stocking with flora and fauna found in tidal pools/flats and mud bays where the temps vary depending on tidal and weather conditions.
I'm finding it all quite interesting as it is all one big learning curve!
steveweast
Active member
I'm really confused on that sand link.....even though it looks great, why are you using something that is Nickle slag (metal) containing 21.6% iron....3.19% Al......and 43.05% SiO2 ? and has the warning that "this product has a moderate to low toxicity to fish" ? Invertebrates, I'm sure, are even more sensitive than fish.
Cold water tanks generally have a tough time keeping the pH above 8.0. A CaCo3 based sand would be much better in adding a little buffering plus have no "moderate to low toxicity to fish".
Cold water tanks generally have a tough time keeping the pH above 8.0. A CaCo3 based sand would be much better in adding a little buffering plus have no "moderate to low toxicity to fish".
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steveweast
Active member
I also agree with Edward.....I don't see how you're going to succeed without a chiller. I'm assuming you're keeping critters from B.C......which is close to my neck of the woods. Even tidal areas get flushed with cold water with every tide and the summertime water temp rarely gets above 58....and winter is usually in the 40's (and sometimes 30's). I thought that I was making my critters experience an endless summer at 55 F.....are you planning to keep your tank above 55 F ? If it weren't for my temperate Australian critters.... which like 60+/-....I'd be keeping my tank in the upper 40's.
coldwater reef
New member
Metals in a coldwater marine tank are a recipe for disaster. I use an aragonite substrate. I take care to avoid putting my hands in the water after even touching anything metal.
Dale Carlisle
New member
Well, isn't that a kick in the pants!
I actually had no idea about the content of the substrate until I posted that link. It appeared to me to be a granitic based sand mixture. It just seems to be another twist in my search for an alternative substrate. I'm glad you pointed it out Steve, although it may mean that I have to remove my substrate
I still have my happy face on but I must say that (in general) the nay saying is a little frustrating and non conducive to exploration. I think some are misconstruing curiosity with a rejection of known principles.
Yes, Ca based substrates have advantages that I am quite aware of and agree with but we don't actually have Ca based substrates off of the west coast so, if we want to develop representative examples of these areas, we have to look to alternative substrates.
Yes, chillers are an easy and effective way to reduce tank temps and they will do the job but are they the only way? Should they be the first line of temp control or can we reduce HP requirements by taking advantage of passive forms of cooling first (like eliminating forms of heat input such as using inline instead of submersible pumps, eliminating power heads by using surge tanks and making use of the stable cooling effect of those great big concrete slabs)?
Yes, temperate flora and fauna need cooler temps than their tropical counterparts but we really don't know what the temp requirements are for some marginal tidal zone species. Right now we are just guessing.
I guess that's the motivation behind my build - to try/learn something new. This field is pretty undeveloped and I'm not afraid of making a mistake or two along the way in order to push the envelope a bit. In the end, if I have to plug in a chiller or anything else, at least I'll have exhausted my alternatives and we'll have something concrete to offer the next time someone tries the same thing.
I actually had no idea about the content of the substrate until I posted that link. It appeared to me to be a granitic based sand mixture. It just seems to be another twist in my search for an alternative substrate. I'm glad you pointed it out Steve, although it may mean that I have to remove my substrate
I still have my happy face on but I must say that (in general) the nay saying is a little frustrating and non conducive to exploration. I think some are misconstruing curiosity with a rejection of known principles.
Yes, Ca based substrates have advantages that I am quite aware of and agree with but we don't actually have Ca based substrates off of the west coast so, if we want to develop representative examples of these areas, we have to look to alternative substrates.
Yes, chillers are an easy and effective way to reduce tank temps and they will do the job but are they the only way? Should they be the first line of temp control or can we reduce HP requirements by taking advantage of passive forms of cooling first (like eliminating forms of heat input such as using inline instead of submersible pumps, eliminating power heads by using surge tanks and making use of the stable cooling effect of those great big concrete slabs)?
Yes, temperate flora and fauna need cooler temps than their tropical counterparts but we really don't know what the temp requirements are for some marginal tidal zone species. Right now we are just guessing.
I guess that's the motivation behind my build - to try/learn something new. This field is pretty undeveloped and I'm not afraid of making a mistake or two along the way in order to push the envelope a bit. In the end, if I have to plug in a chiller or anything else, at least I'll have exhausted my alternatives and we'll have something concrete to offer the next time someone tries the same thing.
Dale Carlisle
New member
editing mistake
invincible569
New member
Even if you take out any heat from your tank.. what will the water temps lower too? Room temperature. Do you live in Antarctica?
steveweast
Active member
Dale....I'm sorry that the substrate isn't going to work. I wish it would.....it looks awesome. I guess the hunt contiues. I've been using a very pure CaCO3 that is kind of salt/pepper looking....and gives an OK appearance....but not great. I've thought of just using local beach sand but, it's not user friendly. Since I top off with kalk, my substrate doesn't need to CaCO3....just something inert.
As for the temp thing.....I don't think anyone here is bagging on you for not using a chiller.....they are just trying to relate their experiences. In my case, I'm amazed at how much heat actually accumulates. Today, I have a foot of snow on the ground and nightime temps are in the teens....and I'm still chiller driven. My aquariums add quite a bit of heating to my garage even though it's cold outside. I have no problem with your wanting to have a go without a chiller......I just think that the peace of mind that a chiller brings overcomes the cost....to me at least.
As for the temp thing.....I don't think anyone here is bagging on you for not using a chiller.....they are just trying to relate their experiences. In my case, I'm amazed at how much heat actually accumulates. Today, I have a foot of snow on the ground and nightime temps are in the teens....and I'm still chiller driven. My aquariums add quite a bit of heating to my garage even though it's cold outside. I have no problem with your wanting to have a go without a chiller......I just think that the peace of mind that a chiller brings overcomes the cost....to me at least.
I have lots of experience with keeping freshwater species without a chiller. It works. I know about people who have kept native marine species for a long time without a chiller. My philosophy here is that in a temperate area the species come from the north and from the south. None of them have a perfect environment. Some would like it colder and some warmer. Pick those that would like it warmer. Check out the distribution area of the species. If you area is in the far northern part of it, they would probably like a warmer environment.
But I would still very much recommend one because it is so relaxing not having to worry about the temperature.
But I would still very much recommend one because it is so relaxing not having to worry about the temperature.
There really is no reason to be just guessing what temps are adequate. It's really very simple to figure out. Look up the natural range for the species of interest, than look at the normal water temps for the range. Consider the Northernmost and Southernmost parts of the range the extreme, and go for a water temperature in between.
As for alternative cooling, certainly worth looking into. Just set up the system and run it for awhile to determine what temp it keeps and either keep species that are known to live well at that temp, or do something to futher cool it down to accptable levels for the species that you want to keep.
coldwater reef
New member
ok here goes about substrate-I find some places on the beach where a lot of small oyster/clam shell fragments accumulate up above the high water mark. I can easily be gathered and used as an authentic substrate. I myself simply use regular substrate because most is covered by barnacle clusters etc that I put in the tank. BTW the barnacles are still going strong for me.
ok i have a 56 acrylic tank that im thinking of going cold with. i live in CO in a basement (lol) that stays around 65 in the summer and 55 in the winter. my lighting is 4 t5 but it came with rerally bright led moon lights. do you think i could just keep the moons on and not have a chiller?
also, seeing as how i live in colorado would it be possible to get CW livestock?
also, seeing as how i live in colorado would it be possible to get CW livestock?
coldwater reef
New member
there's an outfit in Maine- http://gulfofme.com/ and then myself being I live 5 minutes from the water. I think also there's an outfit in New Zealand. Otherwise it's pretty much non-existent. Keeping CW marines is a rare disorder. Few aquarists are afflicted and are little understood by normal people who just keep fish and live a normal life.
coldwater reef
New member
65f is way too hot.
mr. bojangsjang
New member
OMG thank you coldwater reef! I don't live too far from Maine and I guess I will get my livestock from there and Billsreef, thanks!
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