Combo Sump with Turf Scrubber, DSB & Fuge

[Neon Reefer]

I've started to build a sump out of a 29 gallon tank I had laying about.
I started by sectioning off 4 inch compartments for the intake and return,
leaving 19 inches in the middle. But instead of using it all for a chaeto
refugium I decided to add a special sixth baffle about 1/3 of the way to
provide some more features.

What this sixth baffle does..

* The baffle partitions off a 6-inch deep, 2-gallon volume deep sandbed.

* Baffle is submerged to allow the top 2 inches of water to circulate over both the sandbed and refugium, with a barrier to screen out chaeto.

* Baffle has two vertical extensions to hold the bottom of a 10x12 inch algae turf scrubber screen which slopes down to it at a steep angle.


Sixth baffle in its future location. Blue line on sump is fuge water level.

Sixth baffle holding the sandbed. Chaeto barrier is not shown.

With this sheltered DSB I am counting on nitrates diffusing back over
from the fuge, since water flowing over the turf screen bypasses the
sandbed for the most part. Suspended detritis flows into the 8 inch
deep refugium instead of onto the sandbed, helping to keep it clean.


Sixth baffle also showing ATS screen holder location.

Lighting

I plan to hang two 27 watt 6500K helical CF lights up to 3.5" below
the rim, aimed directly at the ATS screen with the fuge getting its
light off of the sides of the bulbs. Even with the lights hanging this
low the sump still has 8 gallons of reserve to handle power outages.


Filtration capacity


* With a 12x10 inch screen the sump would provide just over
half the recommended ATS filtration capacity for a 100 gallon
system due to its single sided screen.


* The sump provides about half of the DSB volume cited
by Anthony Calfo as sufficient to support a 100 gallon system.


* The shallow refugium holds roughly half the chaeto you'd
want to grow to support a 100 gallon display tank.


After running for about a month the combo sump should reach its
nominal capacity, mainly reducing nitrates. As the sump continues
to mature over the next couple months, the ATS will come online
and begin scrubbing the water of phospates and metals, while it
raises the pH and lowers nitrates even further (citing Santa Monica
of algaescrubber.com).

Due to the sump's triple redundancy in nutrient removal, if chaeto
is overpruned or allowed to grow too dense the DSB and ATS can
make up for the resulting loss of productivity. Likewise, the DSB
and the chaeto sections can take up the slack during periods of
low ATS productivity. Such periods can result from overscraping a
screen or, more often, from neglecting to scrape the screen weekly.

This sump therefore has the potential to reduce ATS maintenance
as the system can adapt well to a less frequent scraping regimen.
I'll post more pictures when I complete the sixth baffle and finalize
its location. Here is a spreadsheet view showing all the dimensions.
Reserve capacities and the maximum ATS screen size are calculated.

I welcome all comments and suggestions as this comes together!

 

[Neon Reefer]

Here's a diagram of the combo sump:

Regards, Neo Reefer
(a.k.a. Neon Reefer on ReefCentral)

 

[Neon Reefer]

Some more progress on the sump construction..

Another view of the sixth baffle. I made this out of the
glass scraps left over after Lowe's cut my first 5 baffles
and you can see the horizontal seam where they were
siliconed together, reinforced by the two vertical cross
pieces.

The ATS screen holder is siliconed onto the cross pieces. It is
made from a piece of black plastic that used to be part of an
old videocassette rack. I dremeled the sides a bit to open up
a slot so the screen can sit inside it for extra stability, and to
channel the water flow a bit. The upstream edge of the holder
tips up slightly though this is kind of hard to see from the pic.

Side view of the sixth baffle with ATS screen holder. Having a
slot running the length is useful but probably not necessary.

Siliconing the sixth baffle into place.

Black eggcrate siliconed to the gap under the screen holder.
This is a barrier for keeping chaeto out of the sandbed zone.

One more scrap left over from Lowe's may make a good
center brace for the ATS screen, to keep it from sagging.
The blue line marks where I'll need to have it cut to size.
If the screen drips too much this narrow brace may have
to be replaced with a full-width pane of glass to channel
100% of the flow onto the ATS screen.

More to come.......

 

[Doc-tor]

This idea interested me, because now create and glue samp. I look forward to continuation.

 

[OodleyBoodely]

This is very interesting! I threw together a 20L sump for my 29g display(under construction) that also has a similar setup with a dsb, a duplex refugium, and I'm planning a ats for it as well, but, have yet to get to work on that part. I'm planning to build a removable box for the ats that will sit on top of the sump over the dsb and the return section of the sump that will either be plexiglass or glass...haven't decided yet. It will drain into the return section and then flow over the dsb and into the duplex refugium. Seeing your plans is very helpful in my own build. I look foreward to seeing how your sump comes out!

 

[Bobbo15]

Combo Sump with Turf Scrubber, DSB & Fuge

Interesting layout, nice execution. Only thing I see as a possible problem would be detritus and broken bits of chaeto getting into the deep sandbed through the egg crate. But you could just syphon the top 1/2" to keep clean.

I don,t see a protein skimmer, are you not planning to use one or is it elsewhere?

 

[OodleyBoodely]

I'm not sure what the OP's intentions are regarding a skimmer, but, ATS systems generally are skimmerless as the algea scrubbers replace the skimmer, ... that is my intention with my system.

 

[Neon Reefer]

This is very interesting! I threw together a 20L sump for my 29g display(under construction) that also has a similar setup with a dsb, a duplex refugium, and I'm planning a ats for it as well, but, have yet to get to work on that part. I'm planning to build a removable box for the ats that will sit on top of the sump over the dsb and the return section of the sump that will either be plexiglass or glass...haven't decided yet. It will drain into the return section and then flow over the dsb and into the duplex refugium. Seeing your plans is very helpful in my own build. I look foreward to seeing how your sump comes out!

Thanks OB. After having an turf scrubber in a bucket on a shelf over my tank for a year, I can see many advantages to putting it down in the sump.

It currently takes about me and my wife about an hour to carefully disconnect and pull down the bucket, take off the lights and clip on fan, remove the ATS screen to inspect rinse and scrape, scrub the bucket, prune wash and replace the chaeto I keep in 2" of water at the bottom of the bucket (turned out to be a good idea), then clean the slotted tube that feeds the vertical ATS screen, clean the powerhead and hose leading to the bucket, clean the pipe that drains back to the tank, clean the bulbs and replace the lights and fan before hauling it all back up onto the shelf and then testing the system to verify there are no leaks or sprays..

Once the ATS is moved down to the sump, the few tasks that remain should take about 5 minutes to do - and all by myself which makes the wife happy.

I'm interested to see what you come up with - please PM me when you start your own DIY thread.

 

[Neon Reefer]

Interesting layout, nice execution. Only thing I see as a possible problem would be detritus and broken bits of chaeto getting into the deep sandbed through the egg crate. But you could just syphon the top 1/2" to keep clean.

I don,t see a protein skimmer, are you not planning to use one or is it elsewhere?

Thanks Bobbo lots of ways to put an ATS in a sump! One thing that appeals to me about the layout I came up with is the lighting efficiency, making the helical CF bulbs do double duty. Other layouts I've seen angled the turf screen in such a way that you'd need two sets of lights and more wattage.

Another feature, using the ATS screen to divert the flow over the DSB, should help to keep it clean. You are right that tiny bits of stuff could float in there. But the design provides a ready made solution for this: Removing the ATS screen momentarily every so often will use the normally diverted flow of water to flush the sandbed's surface clean. Only problem is the amount of sand it could end up flushing down into the fuge - so this would be done sparingly.

 

[Neon Reefer]

I'm not sure what the OP's intentions are regarding a skimmer, but, ATS systems generally are skimmerless as the algea scrubbers replace the skimmer, ... that is my intention with my system.

OB, I'll have a skimmer hanging off the intake section to deal with my habitual overfeeding. I don't think an ATS replaces a skimmer in my experience, mainly it's for reducing nitrates and phosphates - plus metals and dissolved organic compounds that skimmers can't remove.

 

[Neon Reefer]

Return Section

For an algae turf scrubber the rule of thumb for water flow
is 35 gph per inch of screen width. For my 12" ATS screen
that's 415 gph. I obtained a used Rio+ 2100 for my return,
which outputs 692 gph with 0' head, and 375 gph with a 4'
head, so there will be enough flow moving through the sump.
A braided 3/4" hose, a section of which is visible below, will
connect the pump to a Loc-Line return spout mounted over
the display tank.

I also wanted the option to divert some flow back into the
return compartment so I added a tee with a ball valve and
a PVC elbow to direct the diverted flow downward. I will
use this flow to create some turbulance in an area where
I plan to put bags of carbon pellets and, at least initially,
ROWAphos. This will improve water flow through the media
in part by keeping the bag in motion; like dunking a teabag.

Return pump output fitted with braided hose, tee, 1/2" ball
valve & elbow downspout. Hose to display tank not shown.

On Thursday I cut a piece of black eggcrate to set the
pump on top of, and then made a cage-like contraption
using zip ties to contain a media bag suspended about
an inch above the bottom. The cage has a hinged lid to
keep the bag from floating off or being washed into the
intake.

The completed return platform - with media cage door open

Yesterday I decided this cage was too small, so I rebuilt it.
I doubled the size so it holds two media bags instead of one.


Return platform with expanded media cage, and Rio pump

 

[WmTasker]

How long before you will have the sump up and running?

 

[Neon Reefer]

How long before you will have the sump up and running?

Greetings WmTasker. Right now the sump is on a workbench running closed loop with fresh water using a MaxiJet 1200. I just sealed the last of the baffle leaks and I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing so far.

As can be seen from my spreadsheet and diagram, without any turf screen or sand in place there is an 8 inch drop over the second baffle. But instead of the noisy waterfall I had anticipated, the water instead flows down silently in a uniform sheet. This tells me the edge of the glass baffle is smooth and level. Running momentarily without an ATS screen is my intended method for sweeping the top of the DSB when necessary so it's good to see this process may not throw the sand bed into chaos and scatter sand everywhere!

This week I will continue testing ATS screen holders to see if any of them will perform well enough. This is a critical part of the design. The holder must be cheap and simple and deliver upwards of 95% of the flow onto the screen in a uniform sheet. And it must be quick and easy to remove and replace.

If this goes well the following week the sump will be cycled with saltwater and live rock rubble, also closed loop, while I finish the drain plumbing and automatic top off system, and fill the display tank. I am modifying the Stockman standpipe to better suit my needs and will be testing that for a day or two.

The last step will be adding a huge ball of chaeto I am now culturing, plus the ATS screen I will have seeded for two weeks inside my existing turf scrubber box. I will be surprised if everything is not up and running by March 15.

Regards, Neo Reefer

 

[OodleyBoodely]

OB, I'll have a skimmer hanging off the intake section to deal with my habitual overfeeding. I don't think an ATS replaces a skimmer in my experience, mainly it's for reducing nitrates and phosphates - plus metals and dissolved organic compounds that skimmers can't remove.

I also have a skimmer to use on my system if I find I have to have it. I will have to use a HOT skimmer as I didn't allow for a skimmer with my sump design, but, my goal is to eventually go skimmerless with this setup. Here is the link to my build thread. This one is a very slow-moving build, lol!
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1740918

 

[kcress]

Looking good. Keep in mind that if your ATS works correctly your chaeto will die. I could see where you might want to have the TS span the entire refuge space eventually.


I'd love to see a movie of your sump running.

 

[OodleyBoodely]

Looking good. Keep in mind that if your ATS works correctly your chaeto will die.

If it is working well enough to kill off the macros, fine and good!

I could see where you might want to have the TS span the entire refuge space eventually.

That is do-able. I hadn't considered going that large, was thinking I would have to have the macro algae, but, a larger ats would be no more difficult to make than what I was planning for the smaller section. I need to do some more reading on ats before I get started on my scrubber.


I'd love to see a movie of your sump running.

Sorry, I'm too tecnically challenged for a movie. :hmm4:

 

[WmTasker]

Any updated pics of the system?

 

[str8clownr]

Any updates

 

[str8clownr]

none huh

 

[mgraf]

I have been running a sump very similar to this for about two years now. I run with the ATS only, no skimmer. As stated above in the thread, I built the scrubber over the whole section of the deep sand bed and refuge. It has been working great! I originally built the scrubber one sided and sloped as well but, eventually rebuilt the sump to have the scrubber lit on both sides. I only harvest one side at a time to keep lots of growth going on the screen at all times. It worked really well one sided, but works even better two sided!